Alex Fleming
Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex-corporate person, a mother turned successful artist-entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members’ lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my communities experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realise their dreams. If you're a passionate colour pencil artist or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking. Amazing art fabulous personality, there's no one quite like my next guest incredibly humble and with just the most wonderful outlook on life. I know many of you are going to be really, really excited that I'm going to be talking to the fabulous Alex Fleming. I have to say it is so, so lovely to see you.
Alex Fleming 01:38
You too. What was it? I think it was about two years ago, wasn't it? Maybe a bit longer than I had a coaching session with you and I've not spoken to you directly since.
Bonny Snowdon 01:49
It went that well.
Alex Fleming 01:53
It did. If I didn't need your advice any longer after that, I mean, I still need advice, but it's been a wild couple of years. How about yourself? How are you?
Bonny Snowdon 02:04
Yes, I'm really, really well. Yeah, crazy busy, but it's all of my own fault.
Alex Fleming 02:11
Or your own volition or your own doing?
Bonny Snowdon 02:13
Yeah, everything's really good. It was a little bit scary. But I'm getting to kind of come into terms with it, into grips with it all and having to change stuff that when you're used to just being you and you've got your own little characteristics, and this is how you work stuff and then all of a sudden, you've got to work with other people and it's all a little bit like, oh I'm not very organised, I'm going to have to become more structured and there's that element of fighting against it. Do you know what I mean?
Alex Fleming 02:51
You're introducing people, and I don't know what your state of mind is over control over your output and control all that stuff. But you are kind of in a tussle, aren't you with, say, bringing somebody else into the fold, you kind of want things in your way, but the reason you brought them in, is because they do things to a top-level anyway and you can kind of leverage a bit more time for yourself, I guess.
Bonny Snowdon 03:16
Yeah. That's something that I think realised that early on. I'm not overly precious. I'm not a particularly controlled person and I'm really happy to give stuff away. But my problem is the opposite of that. I'll give stuff away and then it's like, oh, it's gone. I don't need to worry about that and then, of course, you do need to worry about it. You do need to have a handle on it and you've got to kind of manage expectations and everything, but I'm just really good at going, yeah, off you go and then if it doesn't get done, or it goes wrong, then I'm like, okay, that's my fault.
Alex Fleming 03:52
Yeah. Spending your own, kind of, I was going to say you're on wine, but you've got about five or six of the money podcasts for the Patreon, can I swear, by the way?
Bonny Snowdon 04:02
You can swear. We're related to that and everywhere.
Alex Fleming 04:08
Patreon, Academy, everything. So, yeah, I've got more questions for you probably than you've got for me.
Bonny Snowdon 04:14
I've got loads. Well, to be honest, as ever, as is my way, I'm never prepared for anything. So, I'm just sitting here this morning, I've had a I've had a meeting with a lawyer, nothing bad just sorting all of my terms and conditions and my privacy policy and all of that type of stuff out and having them done. I think all of us kind of get to that point everything right, we need to get those things, our ducks in a row and then we kind of pull something off the internet and just change it around a little bit. Well, I'm having them all done properly now. I've had a meeting with them and I'm like, well, I'm going to be talking to Alex soon. Have I got any questions? No, I'm just going to have a look.
Alex Fleming 04:53
It's just a bit of a chance, isn't it? It's nice. We've fired off right away with one or two bits and pieces about the base and I think it's all kind of natural, isn't it? I remember, I think it was, was it maybe a year ago? You asked me to do an Instagram Live and I was just paralyzed by the thought of it purely because of the live aspect. So, yeah, it's much more comfortable format, a podcast. At least you can kind of edit out bits where I'm kind of rolling off on a tangent and you just kind of make stuff out of blue and well, I just keep.
Bonny Snowdon 05:35
well, to be honest, Alex, I hadn't asked you purely because when I asked you to do a live with me, and you were like, just a minute, no, no, no and I had been wanting to ask you to do a podcast and then I was in a visit my art club a couple of weeks ago and one of my lovely members, Judy Wysocki like, please, please? Can you get Alex on the podcast? I was well, I'll try. I said, but I don't think he really likes doing this thing. But I will try and that's when I messaged you and I told her and she was like, oh my god, I can't wait. She's like, I can't wait. She is 74, 75. Absolutely a dodgy.
Alex Fleming 06:15
I know. Yeah, I was going to say, I know, Judy, she follows my page and yeah, she's lovely. I just hope I don't disappoint her. I told her I'll actually be waiting for this.
Bonny Snowdon 06:26
Total tough, not going to disappoint. Anyway, I think people are going to be really excited to hear from you.
Bonny Snowdon 06:32
I thought it was just a shadow.
Alex Fleming 06:32
One thing, I've got a face for the radio. I don't know if this is going out audio and video, but I was going to show my neckbeard but now and so I'll give you.
Alex Fleming 06:43
Just the authentic version anyway and also, my desk points into the house. So, I've got like a window behind me. It's a little bit spooky this setup but I've shot the windows in the middle of a day in May. Purely because I don't want the light shining, the light you get a silhouette of me and not read facial expressions and what have you. That's the reason I've got a lamp up here kind of doing the proper lighting. I didn’t take a light reading. I didn't go that far.
Bonny Snowdon 07:16
I'm kind of now thinking now that I should have prepared and got loads of questions for you. But I think what are people who absolutely love you and love your work, what do they want to know about you and I think it's about your personality, your content that you write. So, I've got like a group of people who if we're talking about something in one of my life sessions, I'll recommend they go and go and look at so and so go and look at so and so, they're really, really good example of whatever it is that we're talking about and you always come up as a really great example, not just as fantastic artists, which we need to get to, because you really are an amazing artist, Alex, is your content. It's your take on things, it's your humour, you read a post and you like, hang on a second what? Read it through again and people really, really, really love that and you have made your I talk about if you're wanting to build your Instagram, if you want to build your audience, you really need to put you into the content, you really need people to understand who that person is and I think you've done that really, really well.
Alex Fleming 08:31
That's very kind. I mean, I don't really put much thought into it, to be honest. As much as anything, if I just write something a bit daft, it's to entertain myself more than anything. Just God, I don't want to do like sales, post sales, sales, sales and that is not beat around the bush, that is kind of the reason I have an account on Instagram really, is to sell me work and whatnot. But nobody wants to see sales all the time and I've noticed that, well that platform and others kind of changing over the course of time and I mean, I don't go straight into a rant about it, but it does kind of feel like much more of a sales platform that was six years ago, which is, I think, when I started going on, but the whole point of it for me was just to have a bit of a good time and just socialize, socialize is the wrong word, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 09:27
Yeah, it's about it's about connection and communication and if that's what you set out to do with then you've achieved it because people read your posts, and they get a really, really good idea of who you are and your personality and people should be taking the leaf out of your book and injecting some of their personality into some of their posts
Alex Fleming 09:50
And write a load of horseshit. Well, yeah, a little bit of both. I mean, I just I don't like the fact that it's kind of a sales channel, nobody goes online to be sold to, do they?
Bonny Snowdon 10:05
Actually, interesting, I get the feeling sitting here just in this very, very brief chat that we've had, that you are really quite resistant about that.
Alex Fleming 10:16
I suppose so. There's all manner of channels through which you can sell. I mean, as regards to the wildlife work, I do put my faith in bricks and mortar. So, galleries, local events, exhibitions that are happening at home and abroad, like societies and whatnot, and failing all those private sales, if and when they come and if they do, and it's a lovely thing when it happens, I'm never one to put social media has the key and I do put a link up newsletters subscribership and couple 100, 300 people are subscribed to that now and it's this quite fruitful for them on me, I guess. That's as much as I have kind of geared it, I know, that's probably Childs play to you because you've got that plus everything else under the sun going on. I don't know how you keep the pots boiling, to be honest. But that's as much as I'm able or have the time to do now, to be honest, because I do have other commitments. I mean, my dad's not in wonderful health. So, I do a bit of care work for him. So, today, for example, I'm going around four times, so that my mom has got some kind of semblance of retirement, she's going to play tennis in the afternoon, and then swimming this evening, and then helped him out of bed this morning, back to bed tonight kind of thing, is a busy life, which sounds ridiculous, because I don't have children. I don't know how people who have one child could cope with all the rest of that. I feel like I'm doing something most of the time. But it's a nice little variety of bits and pieces.
Bonny Snowdon 12:06
I'm guessing your mom and dad live quite close, do they?
Alex Fleming 12:09
Yeah, they're just down the road, a few 100 yards. It's kind of informed the decision to live where I do in [inaudible] a little, what do you call it a district or borough and yet, we're just down the road, and we don't want so much, we just got a lovely walking route that's local and that's it for the day, just back indoors for the rest of the day when called upon when required. It's quite nice life.
Bonny Snowdon 12:41
Actually, family is incredibly important regardless of the size of family and to have your mom and dad just down the road, and that they can actually not rely on you but know that you're there for help and stuff like that, I think is really lovely.
Alex Fleming 12:58
I remember having a thought maybe half a lifetime ago. Like, gosh, I don't know how I would do it. Like how I would surrender some portion of my life caring for somebody else. But you're in a different mindset when you're a teenager and now, I was saying to a friend, recently kind of what are we here for other than to look after the people around us and just to make sure that they've got enough in their balls, so to speak, make sure that their content and safe and all that stuff? It's there's a lot to be said for life and service. So, that's kind of what I'm leaning towards, as time goes by.
Bonny Snowdon 13:40
I can just imagine everybody's sitting there going, well, I loved him before and now I just absolutely head over heels in love with him now.
Alex Fleming 13:47
It will be the same if, sorry, I keep moving off-screen and fumbling around with all sorts.
Bonny Snowdon 13:52
It's all right, don't worry.
Alex Fleming 13:53
I think anybody else would be the same. Like if there are plenty who are in that position that I know of, they do exactly the same it's what you do, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 14:04
It is. It is absolutely what you do and I've just recently sort of, not my family, but family things where I've needed to give my support and I would do anything to support any of my family who were in trouble, at will any of my friends and I think you don't know until you're in that position, actually how much extra heart space you've got four people who need that help. I know when I went through a couple of years ago, the support I got from my family was just, I mean, unbelievable. I mean, it really, really was and it gives you your faith back, doesn't it? Sometimes your faith in humanity takes a really, really big kick and you just think well, do you know, and then something like that you caring for your dad allowing your mum to go out and have a little bit of a life and everything. It really does bring that back again. I think that's really, really nice.
Alex Fleming 15:10
How are your kids doing now? They're all right?
Bonny Snowdon 15:13
Yeah, they're all, all right, actually, yeah. My youngest is 17. Now he's driving, and well, it was the dad's anniversary of him dying last Thursday and it's really, really hard not to build up to that one day, it's really hard. I keep on saying to them, look we have that as an anniversary, but we don't need to celebrate it, we don't need to make it this big thing. I took them out, we went out for tea to our favourite pubs. We went to and then when we came back, we went to go see him and it's so funny, because the we just stood around, and we're telling him stuff, and the children go and see him every single week and they take flowers and everything like that. But they just stand around saying right we've done this and since bashed his car, and we're getting rid of the shed, and all of this stuff as if he was there and I'm so proud of them. So, so proud of how they've dealt with it all and they talk about it, and we talk about him all of the time. Which is really, really important. I'm really proud of them.
Alex Fleming 16:31
Yeah, and it's not necessarily even you think of the day as you say, something that you don't know how you're going to approach it, it's not necessarily like, you'd have to put a label on it, like a mourning thing, or a celebration of life or whatever, you can just treat it like a video, I guess, just like a commemoration and awareness of it. That's all you need and you don't have to discuss it, you can do and you do, I guess, you can just have it in your mind, as just something to be mindful of and commemoration, like I say. Don't put anybody as you quite rightly do and you don't want any under pressure to feel a certain way or everybody goes through the motions and another two years, another five years, 10 years, your process a lot more about it and you just take your time with it.
Bonny Snowdon 17:23
Yeah, it's very strange. It really is a strange situation. But they've coped with it really, really well which is great. I mean, they take the mickey out of me all the time. We'll walk into it. My eldest, he's a bugger. He said, oh, mum, there's a video of you and there's a TikTok of this woman, he is actually a man dressed as a woman. They're doing like a comedy sketch and she walks into the hotel lobby, and this is really nothing like me. Just like I've arrived. Valet, park my car, please? He was like, actually mum that is you. I'm like, no, it's not. When we walk into a restaurant, it's like, have you told them Bonny Snowdon is here. They just think it's so funny. They really, really do take the mickey out of me. Because obviously my businesses is relatively successful, and they've kind of seen it grow and everything and they just take the mickey out of me all the time.
Alex Fleming 18:28
That valet parking, they're identifying that outsource in the street.
Bonny Snowdon 18:35
Exactly.
Alex Fleming 18:38
I shouldn't be snorting laughter through the microphone, should I?
Bonny Snowdon 18:40
No, I think that's fine. So, your, I want to say business model, but it's not really. I mean, with art, it's a bit tricky, isn't it? When you talk about a business model, you either go down, probably one of maybe two or three routes you go down like the commission route with something kind of bolted on or you go down the teaching route, or you go down like the exhibiting and the competition routes and everything like that and you've really, really kind of got a handle on that exhibiting competition side of things, and also the massive support for global wildlife. I'd love to know a little bit more about kind of what made you get into that, and what kind of was it something that you said, right this is definitely what I want to do, and also the supporting of the wildlife, and then where it's going, where it's going.
Alex Fleming 19:35
So, you said at one point, the best move for me would be to offer an indie course on my website or something for a fixed fee and there's a guy that does some printer software, called Cue Image. He's not called Cue Image, the software is. He's called Mike somebody and one thing that was really impressed by from his model, as he says that he will just offer a product for a fixed fee and you can get a lifetime subscription, full of updates and all that stuff, to the end of time for an extra £20 or something. So, software costs £55, I think it was rather than Photoshop, which has printer software built-in and it's a £10 a month and I just think, oh, God. Personally, I would prefer to avoid subscriptions altogether. Because I just don't think that particularly fair to people who aren't using it to the full extent of it. So, I don't know, when it comes to Patreon and that kind of thing, I'm kind of put off really, because I don't think I've got enough to teach people to warrant a monthly fee, I would be very pragmatic about it and these are the things I know, this is how you apply them. Have at it. Rather than, I don't know, I think you can go to the ends of the earth with content and stuff and I think a lot of people prefer to learn that way. I'm not denouncing it entirely, but just the way I have always learned and the way I would teach would be quite a limited thing. It would have a finite; it would have a cap on it. So, I need to figure out, if I'm going to get into teaching and have a couple of hundred hours to record some video, figure out a format for it and a delivery system through which to channel it. So, that is still in the works.
Bonny Snowdon 22:16
Yeah. Do you know, I'm listening to you speaking? So, I've done a lot of internal reflection, and courses and all of that kind of stuff. What you're saying about with the teaching side of stuff, you need to have all of that content, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you look at what I give, I give too much. Actually, and I'm happy to do that. I've always been I kind of under-promise and overdeliver type person and I do deliver and I'm that's how I work and I'm really happy with that. But everybody's different and I think sometimes you'll look at what people are offering on say, like Patreon and it's like, I have to do the same. So, oh, gosh, that's the Patreon model, that seems to be the Patreon model, I have to give all of this content, I have to give like a full tutorial every month and that's what I'm supposed to do and I think that's what either puts people off, or people go, right, yes and that's what I'm going to do and then it's not sustainable, because they actually physically can't sustain it. It's too much work. I mean, it's a huge amount of work, it's an enormous amount of work. But actually, if you go into it with those boundaries, and you going well, do you know what, I could do this, and I could give say five hours a month to this and just give them some basics and actually, under well, but promise whatever it is, but you but not promise a huge amount that's sustainable for you and if you kind of go through it, and you think oh, I actually I could do that. I could do a couple of one-hour videos a month, that would be sustainable for me and there might be months where I don't give them anything. But if I tell them that, if I set it out really, really clearly, you could actually have a really sustainable side hustle, if you like, that isn't going to overtax you and isn't going to overwhelm your members.
Alex Fleming 24:28
That's right. Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 24:30
It's really, really about thinking about not oh, that's what everybody else does. So, that's what I should do, which I think a lot of people do, but actually what is sustainable for me and what actually would people really love me to do?
Alex Fleming 24:43
But yours actually because I did look at it a little while ago just out of interest to see what you're offering and it's it must be probably the most complete thing that is the most thorough channel that you could ever wish for because I remember at one point you were posting videos that were 16 hours long or something and that's just everything from gun to tape, everything you could possibly need to know about this particular medium or this technique and I've kind of scratched the surface of what my knowledge brings to the table. But at the same time, I know there's a limit and with the Patreon thing, I really understand the attraction of it, because it's a platform that's there and ready to go and if you were to set something up, that was independent, it takes an awful lot more groundwork, doesn't it? So, the initial stages of the worker is something to consider. I mean, you had to do all of that with your academy, didn't you?
Bonny Snowdon 25:48
Yeah, so that was a big undertaking, trying to find, obviously, I've still got patron and I've kind of took a whole two of the tears from Patreon, and kind of pop them into the academy so that works really well and then obviously, I opened the doors every four months, and I get more students in there, which is great. But the management of it. So, Patreon does all of customer service, Patreon does all of the payment side of stuff if somebody misses a payment, Patreon does all of the collection side of things, Patreon takes all of the VAT, pays it to the Inland Revenue.
Alex Fleming 26:29
So, you don't have to do any of that.
Bonny Snowdon 26:30
You don't have to do any of that, which is brilliant. But Patreon's customer services shocking. Patreon's platform is horrifically awful to navigate and you're really, really limited with how you can grow market all of that type of thing. So, that's the reason why I decided to go down my own platform. But of course, that then took a lot of kind of how it was going to work, what platform was I going to use, all of that development work and everything and then of course, when you come to and it's like, oh, this is great, oh, crap, I've got to pay, I've got to become VAT registered now. I've got to pay VAT every quarter and I'm like, oh, okay and it's those little things that they just appear and you think, I haven't really thought about that there's the customer service side of things. So, if people can't log on, or they haven't found their password, or they need help with this, and they need help with that, there's all of that side of stuff that you have to look after, as well, if somebody's payment doesn't go through.
Alex Fleming 27:34
Do you have any time left for the actual art and the tutoring?
Bonny Snowdon 27:38
This is why I've had to take people on to kind of help, which is great, because it means I can grow the business and I can stick with the stuff that I'm really, really good at. But Patreon is great for what I started out as, it is really, really good and I think I know a couple of artists who I think are going back to the Patreon route, because it is really hard work. If you try and do it everything on your own, it's really hard work. Then we do stuff that you really don't like, like all of the admin.
Alex Fleming 28:11
That's not what we're getting into the business for, is it? I mean, you definitely know, you've got to do it and it's kind of nice sometimes to throw that in, on top of rather than making a big single effort every day, 10 hours a day, just drawing or how much you choose to do. Anything can get repetitive, and it can get monotonous and it's so many people's dream job and rightly so it's wonderful, but it does require a touch of variety, it needs a bit of admin, it needs a bit of chanter with yourself and I was chatting to, I don't know if you know, Morale, she gave me her phone number, she's from the Leeds area and she gave me a phone number a couple of weeks ago to chat about something and it's probably the first time barring yourself and another good friend of mine. So, third time, that I've managed to actually have a phone call with somebody and just a nice reminder that these are people. It's nice to just have that community around and I always thought I never really needed it. But I do because it's been like three and a half years now. You are spending most of your time alone. So, you do need a bit of a something to adjust how you think now and again. Well, I'm not convinced, there's a bill wager. Most dictators just work on their own when they start, there's a start out and yeah, I like the ideas, I think and then it just carries on. But you need somebody around you to sort of, hang on a minute, Alex, what you're talking about? Also, I just have a bit of a laugh with them as well as we are doing as well.
Bonny Snowdon 29:53
No, I think it is and that's what I quite like about my small team that I work with now we have a, although sometimes I have this like going back and working in corporate again, because we have our team weekly meeting and we have an agenda and I'm like, this isn't what I want to do but I know that it's there for a reason. But what I really love about to have Lucy who works with me, she's been working with me for nearly two years now, she's absolutely brilliant, but she's the total opposite of me. She's really organised, really structured and what I love about her is I'll come up with this wild idea and I've got right, this is what we're going to do, and we're going to do this I'm going to do and I get all like she was like, okay, Bonny, does this fit into what the main strategy that we've been working towards, or whatever? I was like, no. Well, let's just park that and we'll come back to that another time. We're just working on this at the moment. Right. Okay. So, having somebody there that can just ask you the question, is this actually something you want to do or is this just another wild idea you've had?
Alex Fleming 31:02
Quite a bit of balance, and especially, to have somebody that's got a few qualities that you don't, or vice versa just like a total opposite end of the human spectrum of behaviours and so forth and pressures, interests, that kind of thing and they know exactly what they're bringing to it, and you kind of get a feel for each other, the more you work with each other, I guess so. Don't you?
Bonny Snowdon 31:25
Yeah. Well, I see your wildlife.
Alex Fleming 31:30
I did take it off track for a second, but the wildlife, I mean, I've always kind of had a bit of, obviously, a soft spot for wildlife itself, but like, for many years, have been kind of tuned into climate change, and all that stuff, it's as much about environment as it is the wildlife itself and I dream of a day where I can actually afford to donate more than my 10%, or whatever it might be, to wildlife charities, and I make a bit of a game of it every year, I want to donate a bit more, and donate a bit more next year and whatnot, it's almost like a kind of a quantitative indicator of how much good you're doing. Because I can't move around really that much. I go for weekends away now and again, but I am tempted to start mine in the best way like, say, I enjoy this kind of the service aspect of that. So, I'm not like, out in the field and doing actual work in a conservation capacity like other people, like peers of mine are doing weekend week out. But if I can throw money at it, to the World Wildlife Fund and related charities and select charities, that's a good start anyway. It's not everything I want to do, but it's something and it kind of went hand in hand also, with the introduction of colour pencil, that was the first thing I did differently to graphite artists for 12 years and in the last three, are we 2022, it was colour pencil for six months. I couldn't really hook it up. I don't know how you have the patience to do it. It's not my thing, but I just sit and admire people are you doing it. I will throw some coloured pencils on top of the pastoral work that I do now. They go quite well together as long as it's like a final layer for say polychromous because it is oil-based. So, you can't layer anything on top of that really after that. It's kind of grown into the wildlife quite handily. Because it is a colourful world out there and it's a lovely medium pastel, in particular, to work on wildlife and I've kind of found my speed with that. It's been a nice rebirth if you like, because it was people's portraits forever and black and white, and now it is pastel colour wildlife works. So, you never know what kind of direction you're going to take over the course of time. But it didn't take an awfully long time to move into it and it's really fulfilling. It's really nice.
Bonny Snowdon 31:32
You're having your works accepted now into these really quite prestigious exhibition competitions.
Alex Fleming 32:34
You're the one who pointed me to David Shepherd. I didn't know anything about it until I spoke to you. I've entered it every year and I've never looked back so far. It's been an absolute pleasure and a joy. Georgina, who's the Chief Exec, she asked me to do a video for the global Canvas competition like an artist masterclass. I flinched at the word masterclass. There's nothing masterful about anything I'm doing. I'm just getting most of the time. Yeah, it's a nice little thing to do and putting the video content out there. It's it's a funny old thing because I wouldn't have the confidence to do say, a live Instagram with two others, Zoe Fitchett and Amy McKim as well, they both asked me to do an Instagram Live and I'm mortified at the idea of saying no to anybody, but I kind of had to because it's just immobilizing, sometimes the kind of anxiety that comes with it and it's got kind of a mind of its own, and never know when it's going to flare up. But when I put a video on my stories, it feels a bit daft, like, I'm just speaking into a camera alone, being a bit of a bunker sometimes. But when you have a conversation with somebody, your intonation changes and the speed with which you talk, it's probably, I don't know what anybody would expect, hear me in conversation, but this is not, I guess exactly how I am when I present my work online. It's a little bit more, I don't know, conversational, obviously. We communicate differently, depending on what we're doing and the same goes for texting and put in a social media post, something like three or four lines before it goes below the fold, and then I start ranting on underneath, and most people don't and that's fine. Nobody's got the time to listen to my drivel
Bonny Snowdon 36:18
So, before you kind of started doing your graphite and before, you're a full-time artist now?
Alex Fleming 36:29
Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 36:31
Did you have a profession before? What were you doing before?
Alex Fleming 36:34
I was a postie for 10 years. So, that was down the road as well. It's quite handy again because it was local and it was kind of a convergence of several factors that had me leap into the full-time career that I'm experiencing now. My dad needed a touch more care, and you can kind of pay for that. Pay care firms produce all of that for you. But it is appallingly expensive. It depends how much time you want to throw it. So, it was handy to be agile and available. I've got touch on everything. So, that was kind of handy to be available in morning, noon or night, if ever I was required and also, I was quite an active person. I did a lot of running, played a lot of badminton and obviously a postie doing a lot of walking in a day, developed arthritis in my feet. I just thought I can't do another winter of this and it coincided with a quite a fortunate a shares pay-out from Royal Mail that kind of gives me a little bit of breathing space. So, yeah, I just made the decision when all of that came colliding together, I've been talking about it for years, do it, just get into the art world, which I've listened to your podcast with Tony O'Connor and like he says it's a scary thing. But if you if you're not going to do it now kind of thing, when, thing?
Bonny Snowdon 38:09
Yeah. Because sometimes you need that bit of a shelf, don't know from things all kind of coming together. You know, and, I don't think you can ever look back and go, oh, God, I wish I had done that back then. Because I think everything that you're doing now is where you're supposed to be. I mean, I'm a big believer in that and actually all of that sort of, just that life experience helps you to then go when you make that decision, yeah, this was actually the right decision before me. I mean, you couldn't ever have not been a full-time artist. Because when I talked to people, I was talking to somebody this morning, it was another member of mine, Claire and I was saying I've got Alex on for a podcast, she was, oh, my God, his work and then we just have five minutes of just amazing, unerring and explain to her how amazing your work is and you couldn't ever not be a full-time artist. The other thing about you is that obviously, your personality and how you write your posts, and everything really well is unique, but also the way that you create your pieces as well. Obviously, people use the grid method and everything like that, but you've kind of devised this system. I was watching a video of yours the other day where you've got your setup and everything and you show people, I was like flipping look how he's organized, like well, I've used all of these before and now I've finished with those. They're up there and then I've got these ones here and I've got half my pencils on the floor, half in the dog bed. Are you quite a process, mathematic person?
Alex Fleming 39:56
Sort of mathematics and languages and that kind of stuff was my strength at school and university and whatever. But if every time I explain this, so-called system that I've got, I'm sure, I don't know, hundreds of people around the world do exactly the same thing independently. Having never seen that it kind of just made a lot of sense to me to do that. I do take a lot of the joy out of the process. I know people who can work without grids. One example being Tom Middleton, I don't know if you know him. The graphite artist, he does wildlife and it's sensational. I mean, I'm just looking at him just thinking how do you know that goes there that goes there. I lean on grids like a crutch, but it is necessary. But every time I put a video on explaining the process, or if I ever have done, I feel like somewhere in the world that child has lost a balloon. There's just no joy in it whatsoever. I don't know. It gets to the end of the video and I just think I kind of actually hope that people don't take it up. Because I do enjoy it. But like I've grown used to it so long.
Bonny Snowdon 41:05
I mean grids, when I first started drawing, everything was just freehand. But I freehand in a really, well, not a weird way and I again, I think a lot of people do that. I start from the eye and I work out. So, a lot of the time I'd start on the I work out and I'd lose, couldn't fit everything on the paper because like, oh, well, we'll just have to leave it there then and then I was like, oh gosh, there's this thing called gridding. When I did art at school, we didn't do anything like that. It was just here's a clean piece of paper and then just draw and the gridding, honestly, I'm amazed at anybody that can use a grid. I'm just like it blows my mind,
Alex Fleming 41:49
But you're using more your brain bony. You're engaging far more of yourself by doing it your way, trust me. I try not to rely on it too much. I'm trying to actually actively separate myself a little bit from it by widening the gap between one thing and the next and just trying to speed the process up as well.
Bonny Snowdon 42:12
Do you think it matters? I mean, clearly, you really enjoy what you do and you don't you don't just go oh, there's a lovely picture, print it out grid it up, off I go. There's an awful lot more thought that goes on it, you alter your imagery your snow leopard, I think you put like an extra pour in and you change the lighting and everything. So, there's a real creative process around.
Alex Fleming 42:43
Yeah, certainly more these days. I mean, as I use the freeware dark table, it's called to edit images. There's some really nice modules on that to manipulate things that I've never been able to do before. So, I've got my phone here just on, I'm going to actually going to my dad's in about half an hour, so I'm just keeping it on. There's some really nice modules on it to adjust images in the way that he likes to emphasize certain things and dull certain things down maybe so they don't take focus away from where you're looking and that's something I've employed a lot more recently is taking a good few weeks to edit an image, do two or three drafts, I guess, and put them into a folder. Forget about it for a week, come back two or three more images after that and then, at the end of it, you've got maybe 20 images that you can select from, just figure out which one speaks to you the most, I guess and even more recently than that, I met Stella Mays last year at the World Exhibition, Exhibition of Wildlife Art and I got chatting to her and I saw her work in the flesh for the first time. She was the David Shepherd runner up last year and yeah, I was just blown away because she includes so much environment as well as the subject itself. So, that's kind of where and what kind of direction I'm going with it is making images that you can kind of get lost in as much as here's a burnout thing. So, it's kind of something you can maybe look at a little bit longer and pick something else out and Michael Demain is another good example of that. He's a local artist to me, he's at the gallery that I'm exhibiting at the moment. But yeah, that's kind of the pinnacle for me to try and figure out how to be more like them and you'd probably think I was being paid by Stella to talk about her that I've just been banging on about her so much. She's one of my heroes. That's kind of where it's going. It's not really a business model thing, it's such more of a creative thing, I suppose but that's the new MO, in terms of what I'm creating and why and it kind of a nod to the environment that I care so much about as well. So, that's where it's going anyway, Bonny.
Bonny Snowdon 45:15
I think it is wonderful as well that you have such a passion for that side of things. I think sometimes artists can get really, really caught up in, oh, they have to do this, or they have to do that. But actually, to get into a business where you're drawing subjects that you don't have to draw, you choose to draw them, you choose to manipulate photographs, take your own photos, whatever. But it really is a one-off original piece, and build your business on that, I think is fantastic. I mean, well, it's not the opposite of what I do, because obviously, we do very similar things. But for me, I really loved the Commission side of stuff. I'm really good at being told what to do, I don't rebel or anything like that. So, I'm very happy just to create a tutorial for somebody, and then create a commission piece, I do really enjoy the pieces that aren't tutorials because it means that I can have music on or film on or and I don't have to be constantly talking and everything. The Commission side of stuff. I know, you do a few pieces, but you don't do that many do you? So, your main focus is your original pieces.
Alex Fleming 46:33
I will certainly do the Commission if required, and if called upon, I don't have a heck of a waiting list. It certainly increases by September time or August time. It's a nice little mix. There's pros and cons to either you do have to stack a few points of sale in months into the future. If it's a wildlife piece, you have to really prepare for that and figure out the theme of an exhibition, and can you kind of combine something with something else to make it viable for this exhibition or that and you've got to think about framing and all sorts and if you're doing a commission, it's kind of straightaway the payoff is there already, the customer receives it and it's hopefully, and I'm sure, every 100% of the time of you, it's great, wonderful job, tears, like making people cry for a living. But it's a bit of both and it always depends on what time of year it is and by the end of commission season, I guess, I'm really ready to tackle the wildlife piece and by the end of all the wildlife work I've done, I'm really, really ready to do like a smaller, something that takes three or four days, maybe instead of two or three weeks. Because it's a kind of an attention span thing like the turtle that I did last year, that took six weeks. I was just getting a bit answering like, I can't be spending six weeks on something. This is insane.
Bonny Snowdon 48:05
But it was so worth it. I was in, I don't know which zoom it was it might have been something because I do quite a few live streams. I've there I've got this sea of people's faces on my screen and I'm like, that's Alex's Sea Turtle there and one of them has obviously, got one of your prints and it's there right in the screen with that and I was, oh my god, and we had a conversation about you. But I mean, when you think of the complexity of that piece. I mean, I would have thought it would have taken you longer.
Alex Fleming 48:37
Yeah, I mean, I'll go back to probably somebody like Tom Middleton, who could probably knock it out in about a week and a half. Because he's got that natural sort of, he can see everything. He's like, a beautiful mind with Russell Crowe. He's got it all figured out. He's seen the Matrix, whereas I have not. I chance to do art sort of, okay, next bit, next bit, next bit. But yeah, very fulfilling, though, very fulfilling,
Bonny Snowdon 49:02
How long do you spend on average drawing a day?
Alex Fleming 49:07
It'll be about, I mean, kicking around a normal workday, seven or eight hours and I do have to space it over the course of a day rather than do a big old chunk. I know you can get lost in yours currently like you can just forget about what time it is. I've never been that way. So, it's maybe a couple of hours to, I don't know, half seven till half nine, stop for a break, go and see my dad or whatever. Couple more hours, blah, blah, blah and then, I don't know, half eight to half an hour at night. I'm squeezing more kind of thing and so that's kind of little and often I do you have to kind of walk it off quite often. So, yeah, I'd love to have that kind of, I don't know, that state of mind where you're just in a flow like you are.
Bonny Snowdon 49:53
Yeah. I mean, oh gosh, I can recall spending 12, 14 hours a day and now I'm lucky if I get five hours in and I tend to draw at night. So, I'll start at about seven and work till about midnight and you do get into that real particularly if you're doing something that I'm no recording. If I'm recording, it's a little bit different, because you're always very much in the present and kind of aware. But I do have to set timers to get myself to stand up because I've, I've got, I've got terrible posture, and I've got awful joints and everything, and I've now got my bike. I can jump on the bike for a bit. But actually, that's quite nice, because it means that I get to have a break, I can maybe listen to an audiobook or something like that and I've got 10 minutes where I feel like I'm actually doing my body some good. I tend to when I when I sit at my desk, I tend to sit, and then eventually I end up going like that and then my neck goes like that and then I'm like, oh, and then I have to kind of uncool myself.
Alex Fleming 51:03
So, is the bike a stationary bike?
Bonny Snowdon 51:05
It's a stationary one.
Alex Fleming 51:06
You could stick a little drawing board on the front of it, couldn't you?
Bonny Snowdon 51:11
I'm not very good at my balance, and I have to hold on. So, now I surround myself with positivity. So, I have positive podcasts, I have positive audiobooks, and I have people doing amazing things surrounding me.
Alex Fleming 51:34
What's your music of choice?
Bonny Snowdon 51:36
Oh, gosh, well, if I'm going to listen to music of choice, it's either classical. So, I did music O level when I was at school, and we did a lot of Schubert’s and it was the Trout. We really, really loved that. I can't remember what the actual name.
Alex Fleming 51:54
I'm not going to pretend I know what that is. I don't really know much classical.
Bonny Snowdon 51:58
You would recognize it; you would definitely recognize it. It is one that is recognizable. So, I like that. My son has put me a really fantastic playlist together my 17-year-old and he has the most eclectic taste in music. So, we'll have something from the 40s. He likes the Ink Spots.
Alex Fleming 52:23
Ink Spots, really?
Bonny Snowdon 52:25
Yeah. So, we'll be in the car. We'll have the Ink Spots coming along and then straight after that we'll have Eminem or AC DC. We have a bit of Frank Sinatra, and then we'll have a bit of I don't know, Sia or whatever. He's got such a huge range of music taste, it's fantastic.
Alex Fleming 52:47
Your sister's a singer as well, isn't she? That's amazing, though, that I'm trying to think of something by the Ink Spots. But I definitely know there's four-piece vocal that's not vocal. Yeah, but they've got the instrument like a banjo as well.
Bonny Snowdon 53:03
Yeah. So, it is very much that sort of, I don't really know when the Ink Spots were, that era, probably 40s 50s something like that.
Alex Fleming 53:10
Do you like Django Reinhardt as well?
Bonny Snowdon 53:14
Who?
Alex Fleming 53:15
Django Reinhardt?
Bonny Snowdon 53:16
He probably does. I have no idea.
Alex Fleming 53:19
Mention it to him.
Bonny Snowdon 53:20
I will do it. He's funny and he's got a really, really eclectic range in films. So, he watches, what was he watching the other day, Taxi Driver. He really loves like, things like Shawshank, Redemption all of that and he watches a lot of documentaries. I like, what you're watching now? Is this and the other is it's a classic and I'm like, all right, okay, there's me watching Bridesmaids.
Alex Fleming 53:50
Narrow or Bridesmaids. Probably. My favourite comedy over the last goes over 10 years now, isn't it? But I could watch that again.
Bonny Snowdon 53:59
It is I watch it over and over again. I absolutely love it. So, do you listen to music? Do you watch anything? What do you do when you're drawing?
Alex Fleming 54:07
A bit of everything. I don't think as far as eclecticism, is that a word? It is now. Music-wise, it's nothing like your son's taste, but it'd be anything from, I don't know, Norah Jones to Pantera or whatever. I'm happy with anything that will last. Probably, I mean, I tend to turn music on at about three in the afternoon just to give me a bit more of a push towards the end of the day, but it's podcasts from dawn to dusk it's a lot of comedy podcasts conversation and whatnot. Because that is often what's missing is a bit of back and forth and just to like have some semblance of that going on in the background is nice. Aside from that, it's better music and then a conversation with my long-suffering wife. So, she gets the dubious pleasure of me downloading all my thoughts onto her at the end of the day,
Bonny Snowdon 55:09
I guess, she working during the day.
Alex Fleming 55:12
She works. Yes. I don't know how much I'm able to say about it. But her job title, I can certainly share with you. So, independent domestic violence advocate. So, she deals with victims of domestic abuse and stuff. So, there's quite a heavy gig for her, but she gets an awful lot of meaning out of it and she wouldn't change it for the world. But the last thing me is me chatting her away, at the end of the day.
Bonny Snowdon 55:38
I think it probably is a bit of gentle relief for her because that can be really, really heavy. The charity that I support on a regular basis is IDAS in New York, which is the Independent Domestic Abuse Services. I mean, I don't know whether you read my Instagram story a while ago, but I've suffered from domestic abuse, which you think about it, you think oh God not nearly as bad as some of these other people, but abuse is abuse. So, I have got a huge, huge amount of respect for what your wife is doing. That's just amazing.
Alex Fleming 56:14
There's a spectrum as well you never know what the seed of something is going to be and you never know who it's happening to. So, like, I went into my relationship with Caroline, my wife, knowing so little about it. I was so naive, I just thought, for one thing, young people don't do that. The image I had was like some kind of grizzled, bitter, 50-year-old man sort of, like, say, I don't really like talking about it too much, because I'm talking about now. But yeah, it's just everywhere, and you have to go in, like, just feel open to anybody who wants to talk to you or whatever and that's the way she treats her job and she's super sensitive to all these issues and she is a manager of people who were there as a result of it, she's got her head screwed all the way on. She's really good with all and I was relying upon her for paying most of the bills, the first year of working full time as an artist. So, I kind of owe everything to her really, she's taught me a heck of a lot and she's supported me as well. So, I look forward to the day where hopefully, I could do that for her as well, but feels like a long way off.
Bonny Snowdon 57:35
Well, you just need to put your prices up. I keep on messaging you, Alex, put your prices up.
Alex Fleming 57:43
They're creeping up over time. It's as much getting a feel for each exhibition and gallery and so forth, and figuring out what's what, I'll take guidance from you and from the gallery owner, and everybody else in between.
Bonny Snowdon 57:59
Yeah, and it's so lovely. Because I mean, people might see me as like a hardened businesswoman, whatever, and I'm really not I've got three children, and all I want to do is leave them a legacy and make sure that they're all okay and I've seen what it's like not to have anything, and I really don't want to go back there again. So, I do have, I guess, a different attitude to you and it's changed through meeting people and everything like that. But I really love that everything that you do, and I'm not saying what I do doesn't come from that same place. But it comes from that place of caring, that place of wanting to do right with the environment the love of your art and everything and I'm not saying I take advantage either but you're not kind of trying to pull a fast one on anybody. That makes me sound like I'm trying to pull a fast one and I'm really not. I know that I help people in helping them to draw and what I do helps people in different ways, but I just really love the ethos that you have in your business and if you could just raise your prices a little bit even better.
Alex Fleming 59:13
Yeah, cautiously optimistic about that angle of attack. Yeah, I know, they are increasing, Bonny, thank you very much there. Thank you for your advice on it.
Bonny Snowdon 59:22
But it's only because they're so worthy of big, big price points, but I totally understand that it's something that it'll creep up and creep up and there's got to be something that you obviously feel comfortable in doing.
Alex Fleming 59:42
You find a balance in the end, don't you? I mean, you never know what kind of effect COVID has, or a war in the Ukraine is having and all that stuff you is the least of the world's problems, but it does have to be rolled into your decision making I suppose over time. So, it's a sensitivity and you only get a feel for it by talking to the people who might buy and talking to people who've been there before, like yourself. So, I'm really grateful for your advice on that, it's been really helpful. I was going to ask how is life over in Ripon? Is it Ripon you live in?
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:20
Yeah, just outside?
Alex Fleming 1:00:23
We went on a trip to York about three months ago, or two months ago and I saw the same for Ripon and anytime I see that sign, I just think oh.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:30
You should have come over. You should have come.
Alex Fleming 1:00:32
[inaudible]
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:33
I'm always here. No, I'm always here. I become a hermit. Now that my youngest is driving, he goes and does all the shopping because he's still like really keen on that driving. I'm like can you just go get some cat food? Yeah, I'm off. That's a lie. I do get out. But I know, it's lovely and I'm very blessed we've been here for nearly 17 years end of the village. It's really nice and quiet and I've got fields on two sides and yeah, it's lovely. It's really, really nice. So, I've got my dogs here. All three of my dogs are with me all of the time, which is lovely. So, yeah, I have a nice time really. My son says all I do is watch videos all day.
Alex Fleming 1:01:23
You make videos all day. There's the Great North Art Show in Ripon. That's on this year and I really hope to make it down there. But if I do, I'll knock-on.
Bonny Snowdon 1:01:46
I'll tell you what, if you go to the Great North Art Show at the Cathedral, if you don't come and see me. I'll be crossed.
Alex Fleming 1:01:55
You don't have a trouble saying that as well, didn't you? Great. North Art Show.
Bonny Snowdon 1:01:58
It is really nice. They set the exhibition up beautifully they have photography bits, and they have really quite big pieces and they usually have resident artists there and the for years that I've been it's been a really good exhibition, I have to say.
Alex Fleming 1:02:16
Yeah. So, maybe one day. We sound ridiculous. We should all be meeting each other, shouldn't we?
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:24
[inaudible] conventions. Well, I'm going to let you go out because I know you got to go and see your dad and everything. Honestly, it's been so lovely to chat to you and I know that you've got so many people who absolutely adore you. So, there'll be looking forward to listening to this. So, thank you ever so much.
Alex Fleming 1:02:43
Thank you. It's been a pleasure and thanks for asking me, but maybe you didn't budge me at all. But like when it comes to the confidence thing, I know you often ask it's about getting your reps in, it is just sticking your face in front of other people and forgetting about the context that you've kind of wrapped around it that nobody else is thinking about. Just get on with it and get the reps in and do it. So, I appreciate the invite. It's been a pleasure.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:09
It's been brilliant. Thank you so much.
Alex Fleming 1:03:11
All right, Bonny, cheers.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:13
Okey-doke. Speak soon. Bye.
Alex Fleming 1:03:27
Speak soon. Bye.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:28
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those you know who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time