Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex-corporate person, a mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members' lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my community's experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate coloured pencil artist, or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking. This week my guest is someone I've known for years but haven't chatted to actually for quite a long time since I give up my horses. He's such a lovely man as surrounded by his fabulous dogs and horses and that wonderful accent. And of course, a huge asset in the north with his ability to predict snow. I'm delighted to introduce Steven Leigh, Barefoot Trimmer. His website says he likes cake and tea with no sugar and that will absolutely do for me. Oh, is so nice to see you Steve. It must be 18 years since we've chatted.
Steven Leigh 01:51
Yeah, it's got to be. It's been eight years something like that may be.
Bonny Snowdon 01:58
Yeah.
Steven Leigh 01:59
You need to get yourself another horse.
Bonny Snowdon 02:01
Oh, God, I have to get a car horse I think, I'm far too fat for a normal one.
Steven Leigh 02:08
You can look me around the hills, you'll be fine.
Bonny Snowdon 02:13
Yeah. Well, obviously I know where you're from. But tell me where you're from and just describe, I guess who you are and what you do.
Steven Leigh 02:23
Right. So, I live in Northumberland now. I've been here about probably coming up 20 years now where we are, middle of nowhere. So, I absolutely love it. Just us, the horses and three or four other houses. It's horses’ rehabilitation, is lameness rehabilitation, helping the horse heal itself really given that the opportunity rather. It's doing as little as possible, but help them along the way is kind of the way I look at it. I've been doing that solely for the last five years when I did it half in half with an office job for the previous maybe 10, 15. But I couldn't stand being inside anymore and I thoroughly enjoyed being out and dealing with the horses. I wasn't getting anything out of it and I was just making money for people rather than helping people. There's nothing like getting a taxi, I've got my horse back. You know, that's still a special a day that was 15, 20 years ago. So, I do those two and a half days a week what I call locally working a day and I go down I work Ascot, Windsor Henley every quarter as well. Then I do other days down Yorkshire once every eight weeks and up to. I can go once every eight weeks. I'm resource restrained because it's just me now. So, I do take the new one on but I kind of got a Rutan really [Inaudible] and it's really lucky to be honest. I do take new ones on every now and again. But only if I think I can really make a difference to what somebody else could do. But it's just nice. It's not work. Yes, you know, you're going to work, when you get up, you're not doing what you want. You want to do with home and stuff, but it's not work when I'm out. I thoroughly enjoy it.
Bonny Snowdon 04:03
Yeah. That's what's amazing, isn't it? Because I feel like that as well. We work long hours. You work in credit, with the driving and all of that kind of stuff. But it's not like a job, is it?
Steven Leigh 04:19
No, it takes a bit of getting used to that. Actually, you can stop feeling guilty for that. It's actually just, that's what you're there for and that's what you have. If you think, could I do this and you think of a million reasons why you can't. Actually, just somebody said to me one day, well, what happens if it really works? I was like, what do you mean, everybody keeps saying, if you didn't do this, or you broke your arm and you couldn't work and all that stuff. But what happened it worked, you could work your own hours to a point and ride your horses when you want. You do something you love and I thought yeah, your right. So, I gradually built it. I was just doing weekends to start with like anybody does and then the more people you help the more people they tell, the more people they tell and just snowball. I then cut my office job down to three days a week and then I was kind of my heart was completely into the horse stuff. So, then it was time just to make the jump and not live for the pension and just go for it.
Bonny Snowdon 05:13
What were you doing before?
Steven Leigh 05:14
Business development coordination, or like client events and bid documents for a really big consultant engineers, engineer and management consultants, that was only 20 years.
Bonny Snowdon 05:28
So, I guess that it's probably fitted in the skills and everything that you learned from that into building your own client base and everything?
Steven Leigh 05:37
The business side of thing, I’m probably for a small business and probably a little bit more I run it like a big business, because that's how I've been. I'm talking about, I know where the cash flow is, I don't ignore anything. Where I think if I was doing it without that experience, you would just go out, do the work, and then try and do it once. I tend to run it like, I'm probably better at doing it now than I was when I was getting paid to do it before, like, great way to do it.
Bonny Snowdon 06:06
Looking after so with me previously, I was really good when I first started out my business back in 2017. I do my book work every month. Then I got completely bored of it and it just went by the side. I hate that kind of stuff. I don't know, it just doesn't do anything for me. I ended up not doing anything and then having to do it all in one day, for the whole year. Then it was just like, oh, I’m putting my hair out. I'm like, oh, my God, it was awful. Even with the Academy, which I launched last September, I didn't have anything set up. I didn't have a forecast, I didn't have budgeting, I didn't have anything like that. The problem was it grew so quickly. I was like, oh, I think I need to have some help here. I've actually brought on a finance consultant to help me which has made a massive difference, because you got to know your figures, don't you?
Steven Leigh 07:02
Yeah, it allows me to do what I want to do and the beam part time things, I tend to deal with doing two and a half days locally, gives me half a day at it. For what I used to do is people you want to help them because if a client phones, and I know they're out of sync, obviously possibly got a problem. So, I'll take that straight away. If it's someone ringing for advice, or something like that, I try and do that. I've got afternoons a week, I do that because if you stop by the side of the road for half an hour, then you're half an hour late for a client then if you do that twice, you're an hour late by the end of the day. So, just by keeping myself restrained a little bit I've managed. That takes a lot of the stress in a job. When you're there you know what to do, but it's all a build up to it. So, you need to have the time and thinking time is quite important. So, that's what I've been quite strict with that. Because the amount of people that really you could be out all day every day. But then if somebody has a problem, how would you get there? Here's what I was saying. So, I keep those days back.
Bonny Snowdon 08:03
Yeah. Have you always had an interest in horses is horses been sort of like a passion or how did you actually get into the foot rehab side of things?
Steven Leigh 08:15
Horses started when I was 19, I think it was. Yeah, it was 19. I used to play golf fairly well, virtually every day and had a really bad game I was getting worse. When you get into a habit you had a bad habit you start hitting bad stuff to get your head down and it snowballs a bit. I remember coming out, my sister used to go riding lunches on holiday and my cousin had horses, kids used to get to go and pat them and I used to really enjoy just being around them. Then I was putting the golf clubs in the car for a really bad game golf and two girls went faster horse I thought I'm going to try that. Somewhere in the random I'm going to a lesson and then after two lessons absolutely hooked and then to buy my own horse when I was about 21, 22. It was that horse that she had a slight rotation of a joint so she had to have this issue. She kept going on and off intermittently limb, fetlock issues, arthritic issues and things. When my wife moved to PA became really good friends with her family and he was really interested in the Barefoot side of things he says you know I think actually fixing this with a shoe should try it like this and then I said Well why. I still remember that big leap all those years ago thinking well that makes sense. So, I did some research analysis the more you know the more you realize you don't know and I got really addicted into and we did sessions of study nights here. If you're five different people come around study books and talking about stuff and just really got into it. Worked out, he taught me to work with her. I got her go and then you go and help somebody else and then just you think it becomes almost what you are. It's quite odd. But yeah, I wouldn't change it for the world, it's open so many opportunities to different people and I've been really lucky to get involved with some of the research stuff you have been helping with. The more you do this again, then you find out a bit about that and you think, well, there's so much more, there's just this whole world down these roads, you go down a little bit. Then sometimes like, somebody asked me something else, so I'll jump across the street and go down another. Yes, it's always something to keep you interested in, it's not doing the same thing, it's never the same. Every horse you go to, every 10, 15 horses a day, every single horse you go to it definitely present something. Like what you do with one horse is the worst thing you could do with the next horse. It's sort of gradually picking up and learning that. I’m quite big on teaching owners to maintain their horses in between, because they see the horses every day, and I want them to feel a change before you have to deal with it. Because the foot changes fairly quickly to cope with how to balance, how the horse loads, think of it like a bit of a balloon, if you stood on the outside of the balloon, the air shows everything out to the outside in the horse. Without a shoe on the heels can move up and down and the foot changes quite radically. So, if you've got someone, the more you give the owner, the empower the owner to do little bits and pieces in between. That's great, because then you have a team, you can say, oh, well, that's moved a bit, but I just did this little bit and that came back or I don't want to touch this because it's changing. I think I would struggle to teach properly. I can teach people what to look out for their own horse. But I think I will struggle on how to teach someone to know what to do with a horse that I hadn't seen. I'm not [Inaudible] my OCD would call for that.
Bonny Snowdon 11:48
Well, I had two horses when I knew you and one was an ex-racer and then we had elf I think it was turned out. I can't remember which it was, but it turned out. He did have shoes for a period of time, but actually when he did go lame, and that's when I started using you for the Barefoot side of stuff. He was sound after we had him barefoot. That was eight years ago and it's still quite a long time. Well, there was a few people who were like yes, barefoot is the way to go and things were coming out and everything of you finding that it's getting more and more people are coming to the realization that actually a horse's foot or hoof is the most incredible structure and actually left to its own devices. Because you look at the Mustang, the wild horse feet, and they're completely different.
Steven Leigh 12:51
When I first started so you're going back 2005, 2006 it was a bit odd that you didn't have shoes on your horse. Now it's not as just some horses well you get the use of livery yard personalities that set the cognitive dissonance if someone tells me all my horse has to be sharp the answer is that's okay. But some people get really evangelical about it. I think that's when you have an issue and people have the horses to do what they want to do and you can try that and I never try if people come to me for advice, that's great, but you never push it on to anybody because shoes are a convenience. So, by the nature, it's inconvenient to have them but there's an equal and opposite reaction to everything you do. So, as soon as you put a shoe on it's got a thin slowly lifted foot off the ground but you're not fixing why that sole is thin. The same word going back out so he's not straightened the leg or put the shoe on the foot we stress. So, if the leg is not straight but you want the foot to land properly, then the foot can be stretched as the leg is not straight, it has to follow the same plane as the joints. The other thing to think about is the only part of the horse that touches the ground. That is the bottom of the foot. So, anything you put on the bottom you have to be compromising it. Yes, if your horse can't be ridden without shoes and you can't find a way through the day or the work, I think then yes put shoes on and work it because it's better to be worked than stood in the field getting fat. But you need to understand why is shoeing your horse if it's just back-to-back every six weeks because that's what you've done. You don't see the early warning signs and stuff. You can see your horse goes barefoot, when the spring grass comes in then you put the grass down if you've got a shoe on. That’s a little bit later when you see that and it's a bit more systemic issues happen before you realize but it's not easy. Some horses are absolutely fine. You pull the shoes off get the horses and you're trained and they go they never have a problem they never think about much. Some horses have got issues where you're talking about diet issues, metabolic issues and they're sure it's a magnifying glass so you have to go work a bit harder to get through. You change one thing at a time. So, you find out what that one thing is it that helps a horse. Then it snowballs, like a roller coaster, once a horse is a bit more comfortable, it gets a lot more comfortable a lot more quickly. That's quite a buzz, when you suddenly find out the horses go, you can see on Facebook, or they're suddenly across country, that doing it again, sort of thing when you've got to help on my horses. Mostly, I've been told that and just walk down the road now I've got once or twice a bit late work or something, and then you'll see something later on. If I'm fine. So, just the Barefoot doing what they want to do and that's a real boost. That never changes no matter how many, I guess it's probably similar to you when you do a picture and you give that picture at the owner and you see that look of absolute amazement on the face that you've actually caught the personalities. I don't know how you do when you look at your photographs, you can almost feel as though you know the animal you painted. When someone sees that, when you give them that picture, that how is somebody who has looked at my horse photograph actually got my horses personality in the picture? You did that? Well, the one you did for us for charmer all those years ago.
Bonny Snowdon 16:13
Yes.
Steven Leigh 16:15
That's fair, I think we've got that the bottom of stairs and every time we come in the house, you see that because she's the matriarch of the ones who bred and you can just see that devilish personality. So, it's the same as you when people turn around, they give you a photograph, there's obviously a real, if someone wants a picture of something, or a drawing done of one of their animals is because they love them and that's the memory of the want. What they asked in the picture you've given them the memory of that personality? That's got to be a similar feeling, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 16:50
Yeah, definitely. Like you say, it never gets old, you can have however many 1000s of followers or whatever and people say lovely things, and it never ever gets boring that somebody says something lovely about it, it just lights you up every time, doesn't it?
Steven Leigh 17:09
Yeah, people don't see, they see you go and do talks and things like that. They see you when you go and do but they don't see what people do. If there's a horse having a problem, it's on their mind, those ones where you wake up at night, and you're thinking, what am I missing? That's when through this, you know, I've done this too long. Now you've got the network of physios or vets or friends, you've got this whole moving out of people that you can. They do to me if they're having a problem with a horse they message me, I'm seeing this horse, what do you think? And that sort of network that you build is so important to keep the job. Otherwise, it's quite an isolating job when you work and you get in the car on your own. Yes, you see people but you are in the car on your, only choice you do you're responsible for where if you've got that little bit of support revenue, where you can just put even in the car. I've just seen the source system such I've told them I'll give you a ring. Because I want the vets and I suggest you have a chat with him about this other people who do diet and things like that, just because you learn a lot when you're doing it, but you never know as much as someone who specializes in it. So, having that network around is been really important to me as well.
Bonny Snowdon 18:26
Yeah. And you travel you were saying you go down to Windsor, you come up to Yorkshire, obviously you're in Northumberland, there's [Inaudible]. They're quite long journeys. Do you stay over? Or do you try and get back the same day or?
Steven Leigh 18:40
Windsor Im down there five days so that's sort of four nights away. The other ones I tend not to attend, I tend to do or just leave really early and get home late. Because I like being at home, I’m a bit of a home bird I don't go away much.
Bonny Snowdon 18:57
What do you listen to in the car? Or is it just you're thinking time?
Steven Leigh 19:00
Pretty much, yes. Its thinking time. I let Spotify dictate a playlist sometimes. That and some podcasts, I listened to some of those on the longer journeys. Yes, it's not music really, it's quite a good time for catching it on the hands free, chat and stuff through with people. It's quite a good time to be on the motorway. You can have chat stuff through and it keeps you concentrate and then yes, but it is a long time to move stuff over as well. So, I think that's a good place, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 19:38
Do you find that that can make things bring things to the fore? Because when you've spent time on your own and you've got that space to be able to think sometimes it's not the best thing is it?
Steven Leigh 19:49
No, it's not. You overthink everything. It's good thinking times you've got a horse that you need to sort of bounced up through in your head because if all of a sudden something just come to you, you know it's niggling you, then you just suddenly think, oh, hang on a minute, maybe it's got tinsel because of this and you think they even wasn't wormed and haven't flu jab, just something might just probably may drop. That is sort of quiet time when you're driving helps for that rather than because when I'm at home, with the dogs, I'm riding the horse, the horse has stuff to do so home.
Steven Leigh 19:51
Can things like that affect a horse then, when you have like the worm or chemicals and stuff does that affect things?
Steven Leigh 20:33
Some horses go footy within two weeks of a worm or some horses go footy within a week or two weeks of a flu jab or something like that. It's just some of them are up there on a bit of a tight roll. That's probably why they've been living the past and you've got involved we've got, it's like a straw that breaks the camel's back anything, you get this Liam horse and you're trying to find everything. You change the diet to give them a bit of a mineral balance, you're basically trying to help the horse produce the best foot it can produce. Then probably that might be just enough to keep it sound. As long as it stays sound that's okay. You never know how close you are to getting it one year sort of worth working towards it. But yeah, so a worm or anything, it's good disturbance. So, anything you put in can disturb the good, which then just disturbs how the other things grow. Horses are really thin. So, sometimes you can move the soul after a horse has been wormed to experience some of the horses, you work with metabolic horses, you can almost flex a soul with your thumb. So, the way around that is the feeling of bouncer like this protects a brand that I tend to recommend which is basically prebiotic or probiotic, which you load indoors a week before you're going to worm and a week after or the same. So, that just buffer the issue was learned and what your horses’ triggers are. So, for new client rings, it's a bit of an interrogation going off a tangent says, Oh, what about this? Has this happened? Two weeks ago, exactly what happened? The more you take it away, its stuff people don't think about because it's everyday normal things. The biggest one I was out a bit longer I would change fields. Anything that disturbs the gut can have an impact on the feed.
Bonny Snowdon 22:22
Of course, amazing, isn't it? I guess same with humans as well.
Steven Leigh 22:26
Yeah, I can't really talk about sugar I tend to put away but I feel a bit hypocritical sometimes telling people to get the horse off the grass there is too many sugars and I stood there with a little bit cake in my hand.
Bonny Snowdon 22:44
So, talk to me about you've got your horses, but you've also got your three gorgeous Goldies.
Steven Leigh 22:53
Golden Retrievers. Yeah, so we've got Kiva who was 11 now, we bred her and then we've got SK who's five and or who's four or three I can't remember but something like that. So, those two are sisters a year apart the two younger ones and that they're related to, I don’t want to say great Anna Smith was a great aunt would be our other dog. Yeah, something like that. So, they are related somehow. But they're just absolute mayhem a delight. You cannot not be happy when you're around them because it won’t allow it, simply won't allow it. They just sit there and look up at your smile and the whole dog wags is not just a tail and then you have got no choice just to be happy and go for a walk.
Bonny Snowdon 23:40
Amazing and they're all really well trained and behaved.
Steven Leigh 23:44
Yeah, in the first one I used to have lessons you should go to a guy up and dampness Hexham where it was brilliant. Basically, only went where it was with Kiva’s mother we went because she was kept pulling, I had dogs on my life and being a keeper. This was probably the first dog I'd bought as an adult for myself and she would always pull in the lead and things like that. That's something Emma knew someone had mentioned to work so we went there and [Inaudible] it was like I didn't know what he said to it, it put this lead on watch you pull two seconds anymore and within four minutes walking down the road this dog was walking next to him absolutely loved a bit and it was just like he hardly said a word. But what he did say was dog listen to and then we took the other one for puppy training on we've got a younger one and then a second one because you know what you do and the other two are so well behaved to learn from the other one that makes the last one easier to train. But basically, we're living where we are on the farm, we're looking at global obviously the sheep and things of that particular taught not to even look at cheaper because you want to relax, you don't want to be thinking you know what's going to happen and you're really lucky that they just see a sheep and turn away. You know, that's what they're trained for. So, they don't exist to them. But obviously, that in the breed as well. That's not just good to know. There's a retriever they are very easy to train that way. You can have another sort of allergic type dog who are trained to go on and will not react to stuff that's move and then that's a whole different ballgame. I wouldn't have a trainer.
Bonny Snowdon 25:14
I remember seeing a video on your Facebook where you were out walking in, there was a lamb that was coming up to them. Just sitting there like, there's a lamb.
Steven Leigh 25:26
Yeah, that was funny because one of the youngest one kept turned up. Gum road turned her back to it. So, basically, she decided to do as long as I didn't look at it, it wasn't there. But that just makes walking so much more relaxed than that. It's not a worry. But they are just an absolute delight and I miss them. I do face time we want to learn more. But it all up to that. I know I fought for my wife and I say everything all right, your horse, all right? Yeah. I'm fine, too. I know you're fine. I'm talking to you.
Bonny Snowdon 26:01
Oh, that's funny. It's Emma, isn't it? Your wife? Is she a veterinary Nurse?
Steven Leigh 26:06
Yeah. head nurse. She's done nursing since she left school. So, yeah, she keeps everything right with the dogs. I've got no credit for any of the health care, the diet and all that she does all of them and we're a good team, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 26:21
Yeah, amazing. Then you've got your horses as well. I know that you've breed. I can't remember the names of your horses but didn't you breed him as a foal you're one?
Steven Leigh 26:30
So, Sharma which we use our broodmare so we delete the old tara so that's what my wife originally started doing endurance on. The other pony that we had when we met is Piper, he's 23 or something like that. There's Brig, Orangery and Sarah and Teddy my new guy he's Clydesdale cross cob, it's just what I needed because we bred Paddy that we lost like a number of years four years ago or something like that. He was very sharp and very flashy but it's not the horse I should have had. It's a horse we bred so that's the horse I was riding but I was always frightened of them. If you want to do off you've come off then come back and find it what you're doing down there but it's a completely different ballgame riding a horse that you really trust I forgotten really what it was like and Charlie the horse we bred because she's down in Oxford where she's gone. She's doing Syracuse polo horses I think, breeding. We sold her for that she just didn't like being ridden so it wasn't any for cement she was fighting indoors didn't like being outside really sharp so just before there's an accident you know, she's literally on the ground and they wanted someone that would do the sort of AI stuff where Carrie falls for working horses and things so that's what the guy took her for because he got space for it and that sort of thing.
Bonny Snowdon 28:02
Do you find that you can ride quite a bit?
Steven Leigh 28:05
Yeah, I've tried, every day I'm off I ride. Unless it happened to be, you know they got days off but generally if I'm working two days a week, I can ride any of you other days and when I was frightened to the horse, I used to find any excuse not the ride. It’s too windy, too wet. I've got to go here I've got to meet and I've got to do this where now I'm looking for any excuse to get on the horse and go for a ride which is you're almost driving home thinking I get home. I've got time to go for half an hour which has been a massive step. It's back when I was when I first started riding horses my first horse which is great. Mental health wise it's amazing. It's been great for me because I think anxiety is probably the right way to put it. I worry about everything in every possible scenario. Even I could write a book on any little scenario pretty much and it was so just to get out and ride makes a massive difference to me.
Bonny Snowdon 29:03
How did you cope over the last couple of years then? I'm guessing horses you can't really lock horses down and you can't leave a period of time so I'm guessing it was just business as usual. Was it?
Steven Leigh 29:15
Not quite, I think it was the same as everybody else it was hindsight now it probably should have been. But initially when you see the prime minister on television telling us we are not supposed to go out and work and all that sort of stuff. It was a bit like well that's never happened before. I remember sitting watch the two animals on call so she was at work on the evening. I was watching her go and right where I'm supposed to be at work in the morning. I thought well I've just woken up was a laminate which had really, I'm going to that and I thought that if anybody asked me well it needs to do and I couldn't leave it and I'll just do it at a distance, everyone tries the horses. I created these protocols. Similar what other people did. You weren't in this deal with anybody that tied to horses have been washed your hands before you go in and wash your hands when you come out and the fairy’s registration came out whether their protocol, which is kind of red, amber green, we'll call him today if you don't go yes or no. That was can it wait another week, that kind of stuff. So, I did reduce the same as everybody else. So, it kind of went through the day and did what was urgent, what I knew that effects of balance changed a bit, some horses you have to leave alone, some horses need to help because the conformation or how the movement and so those horses are kept dealing for the first sort of three or four weeks, and then actually realize you can't leave those any longer. So, if I believe anymore, I'm going to get this block where I'm going to have to see, everything's going to be urgent, so then I just started doing anything that needed doing book safety and cut it down, contact anybody really because I don't like doing horses when the owners aren't there, it’s very, very rarely I’ll do it. Because I want to talk to them about how the horse has gone and walk the horse up. You don't just walk up, pick the feet up and trim it, you watch the horse walk up and move and see how to land because then you don't know if what you do is necessary or not. You get the feedback from the client as to how the horse has been going. So, that was the big thing for me is to get people learn to do the job properly, without the service suffer, and really what the horse was getting out with you. Then the second lockdown I think we had that a bit more, that was pretty much business as usual. But we're the same, be careful, don't go near anybody. Because if you leave it, if you let them get too far out of sync, then you create a problem, then you have to have a vet, you know, if something happens to the guests, if something happens, and they go lame, we then got to have a vet then you've then got involved, instead of just doing the horse when you did perfectly see if we would say. I was going to get some a loaf of bread thinking, I'm a damn sight circuitry and horses outside in the farm is walking through here. Then when you actually read the rules, if you went through the setting law, if you can't work from home, go to work, is what it said really. I was like, well, the living room carpet stuff going to take that, I got to bring the horses here. So, at this time, the more the lockdowns went on a bit more, the less I reacted to them, really because we’ve always been being careful washing your hands in the jails and keeping away from people and obviously, if anybody had any symptoms, you just basically everyone got a message. Anyone has a symptom, tell me, we'll rebook you when there's somebody else who can hold your horses, something like that and everyone was really respectful of that, be honest. It didn't happen as often as I thought it was maybe once a month or so you'd be traveling, you get a text I've just tested, it was more when the testing came out. The first one people weren't really testing or they didn't have those lateral flow tests and things. So, it's I've got a bit of a sore throat. Right, I'll see you next week. It might be it, might not be but I don't want it.
Bonny Snowdon 32:49
Yeah. So, just general common sense and I guess respect for other people, when it comes to animals you can't stop, can you? You can't not go and look after them.
Steven Leigh 33:09
I really felt for people who were livery yard owners have to limit when they could go some horses were just turned away, the initial one when everyone was like, well, we don't know what we can do. Because really, there wasn't that much. It was the kind of tell you what to do without really telling you what to do. So, people have made their own decisions. Some yards they've got the ones that haven't hand washing stations [Inaudible] other ones had times when they could go staggered. So, I've been told what time to see the horses and things and all of that, when you used to go and see your horse whenever you want and your horses got a routine, then that must have been really hard for people who when we're looking at here, there's just us so the horses’ routines didn't really change. The public probably saw it a bit more because I had a bit of time off at the start or we were all trying to navigate our way through as to what really could and couldn't do. But yeah, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 34:05
Yes. It was a very strange couple of years, wasn't it? Is your business just Same old, same old? Or if you've got plans for more things, do you take? I don't know. Do you go on to like training courses quite?
Steven Leigh 34:19
CPD and stuff. Yeah, it's important, it's been less so over the COVID thing, because a lot of stuff is Zoom stuff, the kind of Zoom stuff you do some of the online lectures and stuff. But I used to, it's coming back on now. So, I joined BEFA, the British Equestrian Federation Association as an associate member. So, with access to their CPD, so the regional meetings and certainly use that as a networking thing for meeting other people as well. But they would do monthly meetings. So, I'll go through all of those and then there's a lot more gone online now since COVID, so there's probably more availability of stuff. If we're doing stuff online, we think I wouldn't have a left bar for that normally. But I don't think you can get away from the benefit of face to face. Because you're sitting there with peers and people who do what you do as well. That all Chatter is different. When you're sat in a room to sit on a screen, you don't get that people are a lot more guarded. People don't really chat when you're watching an online lecture, it's not really a thing to do. But when you're in a room, you've seen a lecture, you have coffee breakouts, and that you learn different people. Then you try that, are you doing this? Or I've seen this source that does that, you know, everybody talks and yes, is quite important, particularly when you work on your own, it's a really good discipline to go to what and I mean, it's not cheap, that the good stuff isn't cheap. But that it shouldn't be because there's a lot of time and effort gone in by the presenters to get good information to you.
Bonny Snowdon 34:33
Yeah, definitely.
Steven Leigh 35:17
See that as an investment rather but I've definitely done less since COVID and that's on my radar as it's starting to come on, just to try and push myself to, because you just do the same old and you've got it tight. You get out of the habit of looking at the lists, or like we used to go for the certain things advertising certain places, and you get out of the habit of checking. So, yeah, definitely good. I'm hoping that's going to ramp back up where people now are pretty much back in rooms together and being encouraged to meet again, rather than do it remotely. The rewards have been great to keep us going, I don't know, maybe three or four over the year or so when stuff really interests you, I think I'm more of a personal room. I'm really bad at things. I think I watch this stuff on a screen. I tend to zone out a little bit, and I don't realize I'm doing it. So, I thought the benefit the webinars, you can go back and work out what it was, but it's not the same. I prefer to go and sit somewhere in a room and be taught, because then you're more able to ask questions and stuff like that. You can talk to presenters afterwards about stuff and you can't really do much of that online. So, hopefully it all comes back to the face-to-face stuff.
Bonny Snowdon 37:15
Yeah, it is. I do a lot of my stuff online now. I've just have done my first face to face, beginning of July actually, which was really, really nice. I'd forgotten how lovely it was actually. But the convenience of doing things on Zoom. I run my workshops and everything on Zoom, and I don't have to go and set up somewhere, I don't have to have the additional costs of booking somewhere and it means that I can have quite a lot of people who want to join me on a workshop, they can join me because I've got the capacity. So, it is good. But it's lovely to meet people face to face.
Steven Leigh 37:52
Do you feel it? Do you notice a different from the dynamic when you're teaching online to teaching? Do you enjoy it more? Are you more online or?
Bonny Snowdon 38:01
Well, you've got the opportunity to be able to mute people. If somebody is in full speech, I'm not going to mute somebody, obviously, when they're talking. But if somebody's having a bit of a chit chat, when you're working, when you're doing something face to face, and someone's having a little bit of a chat with their neighbour, if you've got a room full of people you wouldn't sort of do anything about that as long as it's not disrupting. But on Zoom, if there's a bit of something going on in the background and then forgotten to turn the microphone off, I've got the opportunity to be able to go around and mute them. I have had in workshops before, I have had, oh, gosh, a couple of years ago, you get some disruptive people who I don't think they realize that they're being disruptive. But when you're trying to talk to a group of people, I had one person who was just, she was trying to find all of her pencils. But it was just like rummaging around in this box and it was so noisy. I ended up just stopping hours and I just said, oh, I'll just wait for so and so to finish picking up pencils, and then we'll get going, let me know when you- and it wasn't rude or anything. But I took a course on running workshops, and you have all of these different personalities that come to workshops. The best thing is to walk around the room and if somebody has been a bit disruptive and a bit chatty, you just go and stand next to them and then they shut up. But like you said on Zoom, you don't get the people chatting to each other because they don't, they're just all sat on the separate little screens, you know, but it's about if somebody does get a little bit chatty, and it's been going on for quite a long time. It's about being able to step in when they take a breath. Then you go, thank you so much, and then you just put them on mute quickly and it's not about being rude to that person and not giving them airtime, it's about we've got a set period of time here and we've got to crack on.
Steven Leigh 40:07
Then there's something about Margaret Thatcher used to be breathing the wrong place in a sentence. So, people couldn't interrupt her. She had some skill where she could breathe in the wrong place so that the gap wasn't big enough for people to interrupt her.
Bonny Snowdon 40:23
Oh, that's a good skill to have. I might have to learn that. But, it's very interesting, very interesting. I love people and I love working with people and I love seeing people. Did you teach people to do what you do or not really?
Steven Leigh 40:39
I do talks, sort of writing club during the second year and CDMs and things like that, my talks aren't about you shouldn't put shoes on your horse, my talks are about this is how your horse should move and then from that people can decide, then everybody in the room can get something out of it. I do teach people to manage their own horses at the speed that I'm comfortable that they're okay doing it. Some people will talk about it for a year or so first, and some people live with the third or fourth time you've seen the horse, you can kind of say. People have different skill sets. Personally, I just think when people have the empowerment to just take chips off or do something that they're looking after the horse. Then attention to detail steps. If I'm asking you to pick that foot every day and check it and looking at Flushing the frog and all that stuff. The more they do, the more confidence they get, the more you can give them to do which improves their horse and obviously, the better the horses go, and the better it is for everybody and the more attention to detail they can give because it's only obvious when you know. Someone tells you it becomes obvious, and then once that's easy, you can take them to the next level. See, I've got my dogs on the other side. I'll be getting absolutely mugged.
Bonny Snowdon 41:58
I've got Nany here at the minute, I think she's having a phantom pregnancy to be honest; she does this every sort of so often and she gets a bit clingy. I have to take any kind of toy or ball or anything off her. Because she just goes mad. Gosh, I think it was not this Christmas. But the last Christmas she was given a squeaky chicken by the dog walker. Just a squeaky chicken and she just went into full blown phantom pregnancy mode. Oh, my goodness, honestly, I threw it in the field. It's in the field stuff, just to throw it away. Anything that squeaks after poker a burrow into the squeaker so that it stops squeaking.
Steven Leigh 42:48
Yeah, I really enjoy doing the talks or writing this stuff. Because people see the videos of, you take people through to see how a horse should move and that really helps them with their own horses, because they can see it, you want people to see. A horse doesn't just very rarely is just limb from one day to the next, there's normally a slight build-up and if the earlier you catch it, the quicker and easier it is to do something about it. So, teaching people what to look for and how the foot should land. It's not complicated it needs to land on the table first and both sides have put together. If it's not, you need to work out why. The bottom of the foot is the only thing that touches the ground. So, it's usually something above and it's worked now, is it a physio issue? Is it a conformation issue? What is it? You've got like half an hour after this, 45 minutes to chat to people. Give them somebody just enough that they can take that away, and then you'll always get someone who literally the next day you get 15 or 20 videos off people's phones. Get aside you talk I think you just have a quick look at this. I think I've seen this; I think I've seen that, the that have gone away and walked the horse up and done it. I always encourage people to video the horses when they're sound. Because then you can look at if there's something if you think this doesn't feel quite right, then you know what the look like from a video and get someone to walk up again and look for differences. That gives you a good place to start as well. Probably only do about three years, something like that. But you get a room full of really different personalities. The first couple years you worry, I guess it's presenting it becomes something the more you know about something users present. So, now I've done this for long. There are very few questions that I haven't had before, or questions that people want to talk about their own horse but you can delve into that and manage that because what you can't do is allow it during the whole presentation but you get a lot more out of it when people become interactive. You don't have to rely. It's not just showing the picture on the screen. I really enjoy that on the spot while it does this isn't this what do you think? Well, then you can say, well, the thing about this try that. To have a chat with a fairy trimmer about this, or that, that's quite interesting. Because sometimes you get people to go to the presentation just to say that all horses should be shared, because theirs is, then you let them have their say and then sort of carry on. Yeah, I have had one presentation where in my head, I worked on three strikes, and really sort of questions I prefer at the end or the end of the slide. Because if you probably are going to do it in mythological ways, you're taking people down a route to explain something. Because if you give it all in one go, it's really complicated and given a little bit to the end of the slide, it's pretty easy to understand, because it's common sense. Nature is inherently common sense. So, it's easier to understand if you pick it apart. I did have one where I gave her three words were totally on my horse. Basically, I said the Frog to touch the ground. And she said, well, and then she said, my horse can't go without shoes. Well, that's okay and untied on top. Then she says, when it loses a shoe, it's really sore. Does that mean that fairy is rubbish? I say no, it probably means is really good, because he's trying to get the frog to touch the ground at the same time as the shoe. So, it's loading the foot the same way. So, by doing that the foot has to be a bit shorter because the shoe has a depth. Oh, well, I don't think the frog should touch the ground. Well, it should definitely should. That's the whole part of how the biomechanics work on the horse. It absolutely should. She went off again and there was actually a vet in the audience who said, yes, they should. Then I thought I'd move to the next slide. Then it's it came up again. So, I thought, well, I've got to deal with it now because the whole presentation is getting railroaded. So, I basically said, we'll have a quick chat about it, right. The horses don't like flies, the droppings and stuff. So, we've got a tiller that dropped into that, that needs to be the tiller long enough that they can take the rest of the body as well, to get the flies off. I say Nick has got that race; the horses are inherently hit water in the rear some horses just to test the water in their ears. This is the last thing if you walk horses or river, the last thing that's going to go into waters is their ears the right on top of their head that says the way the vision works. Since there is still a blank scene, as you imagine the horse that's galloping, its lungs can't fill enough with the amount they need. So, the whole sort of the intestine moves up and down, it actually, works to pump as well inside and helps the lungs open and expel the air, [Inaudible] got all that right. But it puts something on the only part of the horse that touches the ground that shouldn't touch the ground and that was just absolute silence, never another word because you can't argue with that. It wouldn't grow there if it wasn't supposed to touch the ground. It's that kind of once you get people in that mindset with absolute common sense, then it becomes easier. I don't if people want to put shoes on the horses absolutely fine. As long as they know why they're doing it. Some people can. That's why I really struggle with Facebook. I don't have a Facebook business page or anything because you see people a big bugbear is people offer advice from photographs. I don't know if it's an ego thing, or what, but someone will put a picture of the horse's feet on and they'll say, what do you think of these, and you'll get, you know, 50 people jump along with 50 different trim ideas, of how you should do this, that and the other. Insight, speak to the person who trimmed your horse and ask them why they're doing it the way they're doing it because they've had the hands on the horse. Yeah, maybe I'm just too old for Facebook page. I just really struggle with people, it seems to be this, people have to be right on the show that know what they're doing. So, they have to write all of these strangers and you look at some of the pages, you'll see the same names come up often advice and say, well, the client is really busy, if they're in the house, and so on every Facebook page.
Bonny Snowdon 48:45
I use Facebook, an awful lot. One of the things that I see is you get an awful lot of artists who are like me who teach, and who do tutorials and everything. One of the things that I get a little bit concerned about is when somebody posts into my group and says, I've been doing this picture from this artist, can somebody help me with it. I'm like, go back to the artist who was teaching you and ask them for help. Because everybody's got different techniques. It might be the same medium, but everybody's got different techniques and different ways of doing it. =If they're teaching you their way, you don't want to be wading in and going, oh, well, you need to do this and you need to do that. I just think that's respect out of respect for the other artists and teachers, go back to them, ask them for help. Don't go asking in a public group for help from all sorts of other artists when that artist isn't in that group. Just I wouldn't want somebody to do that with my work. So, I guess in sort of like a similar vein, really. I guess you find people who they're almost like experts, aren't they? But they're really not.
Steven Leigh 50:06
Yeah, well, it's easy to, you look at a picture and there's a load of stuff you can see. But you don't know how that horse is moving. So, when I talk, you could have a massive sort of flare up. But I've been technical, more foot on one side of the foot than the other, like, on the outside, the inside the foot has more or less, but rather than being symmetrical, and people say, well, that needs to come off. Well, find out why it's there first, and you can't possibly see that from a photograph, you can maybe see it from a video of the horse moving to a point. But really put your hands in the horse and feel the joint work, what angle the joints that have the articulation and the joints and things like that. You can't possibly do that from a photograph. You can't. What people don't understand, when they do this, you risk it, this is a horse that may well still be sound, and its sound because it's got that flare, you take that off, you'll find out why the flare is there. Note, if you take it off, if that horse goes limb, you'll find out why it was there in the first place. It's like I'd rather just if it's there, you find out why it's there, by keep while it's sound. Get a physio, look at stuff and then surprise and when you remove the issue that go back to normal themselves, or the state of where they are either way someone looking to photograph can't possibly tell you that. Yet you get these evangelical, you must do this, you must do that and chop this off or that, surrenders cut the bars out. Whereas all structure, anything you take away can only weaken the foot. Anything you're asked off the wall can only make it less fit, because you're asking something off. Anything that's less fit is less strong. So, it could actually potentially deviate more. So, you need to know exactly why whether you take the leverage off or not, or why that leverage is there and you can't do that. If I could ban one thing in life if you gave me a little book of things like a room one or one thing, I put in people giving him advice from photographs. That's like the one you're guaranteed to get me bouncing off the walls. It's the same as I go and ask to do a second opinion stuff you don't you try and get somebody else to trim on the face, they you know, you go and you're trying to just be another set of eyes. It's not an ego thing you don't turn up saying they're doing this wrong. It's trying to say have you tried this or that it's just I can see this I've used what do you think of that and trying to give a second set where if you do that with the people that work now that's a team thing then rather than just someone trying to be clever. I've seen this photograph and sometimes you look at the boards means you've got the more you can look at stuff and think oh that looks great, I'd like to know I'd like to see that horse is probably what I think, rather than all I want is I need the time to trim that off. I trim that off and we're like I'd love to see how those horses moving to see why that is said. So, if you get any leeway in Facebook, we'll be an expert. If you could tell them and give them trim advice that would be great.
Bonny Snowdon 53:03
I don't know, always thought horsey people were funny but I think every single whatever you're in, you get some funny people. But amazing because I know all of your fans will be listening anyway but I want just want to touch on the cake. I mean I know people give you cake when you come and do the horses, that cake is what they have to give you but have you got any favourite cake?
Steven Leigh 53:37
Coffee, walnut or chocolate, that's the go to. That actually started from Facebook someone gave me a cake or some milk I can't remember what it was, it was a cake and then I put a picture on when I was working with our thanks forgot that and someone says I better make you want to since you're probably better I'll do a cake and we'll do a cake tasting competition and then literally everyone seems made so then I stopped putting any judgment just basically got one in every order went it was great and look over the years and then when the guys that I helped with a laminate SAP stuff he was good enough to do my website as well. We did website so they've been through the phases is all the low texture cake in your Facebook because when people say thanks. I've got the horsepower. Somebody says, well, we need some Tesla. Morning I said Well go see my Facebook because that's where the people put the picture on the horse been ridden or jumping or doing something initially. So, he says there's an awful lot of pictures of cakes on the here so we actually create a page on the website for the cakes, which has made me realize how many I eat.
Bonny Snowdon 54:39
Oh God but you keep fit anyway. We're going to stop in a second but do you not get a bad back from all of the bending down?
Steven Leigh 54:50
No, I'm touchwood I'm really lucky. I get a sore back sitting driving, and I never ever had a back problem at all until I walked up our path one night in front of the house, walk this afternoon every year, basically, the gardens either side of the perfect company, you don't drive up, you walk in front of the house. It turns right or left in front of the house in front, the kitchen window, and there's a concrete path and I stepped off the edge and my foot went down three inches, more than that was supposed to and for months, I had a sore back from that. But literally, I could have six horses sitting on me doesn't seem to make any difference. Because I think the lucky thing is with me trimming is that and putting the foot down, you know, the guys that are knocking nails at the horse's feet, they've got to be careful here, they don't want to kneel, catching them, but also don't want to catch the horse. So, it's the start that kind of almost got to try and finish, I guess. So, I think they're at a slightly higher risk. I can just put the foot down. Plus, I'm not probably doing anything where the horse is really getting that much pressure on, it's not seeing smoke. It's not seeing stuff having some band it's quite general what I do. So, really, some horses lean on you. Yes, you felt that in your legs and stuff was literally keep your knees bent and then don't try and hold the horse up. If it needs to go, it needs to go. Then just do the ground work or something and teach them to say no, eventually with no pressure, they tend to just stand. It's when you fight for them that you're never going to be a 650, 700 kilo animal that wants to leave. It'll just leave and if you're attached to it, it's going to hurt and I've been really lucky. Putting in a lot of work now. Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 56:35
Then just finally, before we go, I think everybody probably on your Facebook knows when it's about to snow up in Northumberland, because of your knees.
Steven Leigh 56:45
Yeah, I've got one knee that hurts. I don't know if it's barometric or something but yeah, it definitely. But I have to say that the most snow will ever have it completely failed. But until that was because it was a different type of snow. It was a different type of weather that made the snow but usually I get a burn in my knee when I'm walking the dogs like two or three days before or the day before it's going to snow and usually it works but the grid. That huge one when we had drifts literally outside the house. We were walking on top with a hedge. I'll find the photograph and send you; we were literally on the top of the hedge to six-foot hedges outside the house. We were walking on top of the hedges on the snowdrifts. It didn't even flag it. It didn't do it. I woke up the next morning it was that. The weather forecast in me broken up, but apparently a different type of snow. Different type of weather. That's the excuse anyway.
Bonny Snowdon 57:37
Brilliant. Oh, well. It's been really, really lovely catching up.
Steven Leigh 57:43
Yeah, we're going to do this over lunch though. So, I'll tell you one night or something like that.
Bonny Snowdon 57:46
Oh, yeah, definitely. Really nice to catch up properly.
Steven Leigh 57:51
Brilliant.
Bonny Snowdon 57:53
Well, thank you so much, Steve. It's really, really nice to catch up. Yeah, we'll catch up in person very soon. Thank you. Bye. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those you know who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time