00:00:06 Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex-corporate person and mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision, and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curve balls, waves of self-doubt, and so many lessons learned. And you'll see Ignite my thriving online coloured pencils artist community, a community that changes members' lives for the better,and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me. It used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the, it's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my community's experience, and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate coloured pencil artist or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work and a joyful life you love, you are in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking.
00:01:16 I find initial conversations with people I've never met before, incredibly enlightening and really quite special, and that's why a lot of the time I do interview people who I've never actually met. And my next guest, Jeanne-Marie is just the most fabulous lady talking about things I have no idea about. But you know, it's just wonderful talking to somebody about a subject that I know nothing about yet. I feel incredibly enlightened now that I've spoken to her. Yeah, I think you're gonna really enjoy my next guest and our conversation.
00:01:56 Hi Jeanne-Marie, how are you?
00:01:58 I am good, how are you Bonny?
00:02:00 I'm really well, thank you. It's so nice to meet you. Do you know, I've been looking at all your stuff today and finding out all about you, and it's so nice to meet you.
00:02:11 Oh, good. I'm excited about our little conversation. I have no clue what this is really about, but hey,
00:02:19 Well, it's my, my podcast basically, it's just me chatting to all sorts of different people about all sorts of different things, you know, that's why one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you because of what you do with your, the Montessori stuff, and I think you've moved around quite a bit, you know, you've born in France, all of that kind of stuff. And it, I just thought, gosh, what a, a fascinating lady, and of course you've got your, your podcast and you'd help parents all over the world and, and I just thought what a, what an amazing lady to be talking to.
00:02:53 Ah, thank you. Thank you. And I, and I discovered you during James Live when you came on and shared all of your success and what you are doing, and I just, you're a fabulous, fabulous artist,and I'm just so impressed with your work, so
00:03:07 Oh, that's really kind of you. Thank you. Gosh, I was, you know, that was, it was so funny because I don't, I probably should make more of an effort to be honest, and I'm always just sitting there. I've got my dogs here in the background and it was exactly the same on James's live thing. I didn't really know what to expect, to be honest. And as soon as I came on and the, the zoom you get into the, like the back room of the Zoom. Yeah. And I saw all of the production office behind and all of the t and I was like, oh my goodness. Yeah, this is like a different league. But that was really good fun and I've had some lovely comments from that and I I I love that man. I absolutely love That guy.
00:03:50 I do too. I do too. I do too. And he's, you know, he's, I mean, he could be my son, like he's, you know, this young guy, but he's just so wise and just, I've just really loved following him and, and like learning from his wisdom and he's such a loving, giving human being. It's just, it's beautiful to see Yeah. That there are actually people like that who are successful.
00:04:14 I know. I know. I know. And he, that's the, you know, he, he kind of combines that spiritual spirituality and everything in there as well, which is just, I love it. It's not just kind of hardnosed business. There's that lovely softness about it as well, which is
00:04:30 Exactly, exactly.
00:04:31 Just Lovely. Really, really nice. Really nice. So yeah, I'd love to know more about your, I'd love to know about your, you have your membership, but I'd love to know a little bit more about what got you into the Montessori side of stuff.
00:04:46 Okay. Okay.
00:04:47 I know, I mean, I've, I've read all of the stuff that you sent me, you know, looking at your, your absolute love of babies and children, and when you were 12, you had a, is it a baby brother?
00:04:59 Yes. I actually had three of 'em within 18 months, so it was
00:05:03 Oh my goodness.
00:05:04 Yeah, because both, both my parents decided to remarry and have children basically at the same time. So every nine months I got a new sibling.
00:05:14 And if you love babies, that's perfect.
00:05:17 Yeah, it was. Yes, yes, definitely. I mean, I think they're, they, they inspired that love for sure. Yeah. For me, I think I had, you had posted something about interviewing people who kind of had a change of career or something kind of later in life and that's why I jumped on the wagon because Yes, that's exactly what happened to me. So
00:05:41 Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So what, what did you, let's start with what you, what you started off doing, what you, what you used to do.
00:05:53 I went to school, I did my university studies in the United States and ended up getting a bachelor's of arts in photography. And then I was, I decided at about 26 years of age to go back to France, which was where I was originally from. I, I was born in Tunisia in North Africa and then raised in France until about the age of 11 American mother, French father. And we had come back to the states when I was 11 with my mother and basically finished my education here and decided that, you know, it was time for me to go home to France. And there, it's very interesting because the whole educational system is very different. And here, you know, I was this naive young adult with a bachelor's degree in photography and I wanted to be a photographer, but in France it's very different. It's like, oh, well you don't have the right certificate or you don't have the right diploma and you know, what's your experience and all this. And there's a lot of this idea ofapprenticeship. So basically I found myself at 26 having to be an apprentice to a photographer if I ever wanted to be a, you know, kind of a professional photographer in France. So I actually did end up getting a wonderful, wonderful mentor who was a still life photographer and worked with him. But you weren't paid, it was like, this was like volunteer work. I mean, it was crazy and you worked long hours. I mean, I had delicious, you know, luncheons with the clients, but that was it. And it so happened that one day we were doing a photo shoot for, I think it was at the time, Texas instrument, which were calculators. So it was a big advertising account and the people that came to, you know, see the, the shoot were actually this American team. So it was this American art director and his copywriter who had just arrived in Paris who did not speak a word of French.
00:08:14 And we started talking and they said, oh my gosh, we need an assistant. Will you come be our assistant? And voila, I got into advertising that way, like through the back door with, you know, Americans who understood the level of education I had basically. And so I ended up being in advertising, kind of trained myself and learned to use the computers because that I will, you know, that kind of sets me in my age group where it was a new thing. And the whole desktop publishing and all that was very new. And because I was quote unquote the American, they put the first Apple computer that they received on my desk and I figured it out. And kind of, you know, with with other experiences, I became, you know, a graphic designer working on computers. I met my husband actually in an ad agency in Paris. We had our first child, and then decided that things needed to change cuz we were living in a very small apartment outside of Paris. And we were both kind of, you know, somewhat dissatisfied with our work. And I had actually lived in southern California with my mother when I was a teenager. And I just had fond memories and I said, you know, let's go, let's go check it out and see if that might be a place we could move to. And so we actually came to San Diego and traded our small apartment for this gorgeous house with a swimming pool in, in this neighborhood called Pacific Beach. And spent three months there with our 18 month old at the time.
00:10:04 And we had, you know, said, we're not going to, this is not a vacation. We need to, you know, work and all this. And having had lived here, I kind of knew what I was getting myself I into, I knew that it would be easy to find, you know, kind of small jobs and everything. And so we did that and at the end of the three months we decided to make the big move. And so we went back to France, packed everything up and came here. And that was, that was 24 years ago. And so I continued being a graphic designer and work in, you know, corporate America and, and all of this. And then around, we are both, and we had had a second child, and I think they were about, I don't know, three and seven. We were contemplating moving back to Europe. We were, you know, kind of, okay, maybe it's time for us to go. And there we both went to Barcelona, which we love in Spain. And my husband had all sorts of wonderful appointments, and basically they offered him, you know, jobs. And that is when I had a big realization that I did not wanna continue doing what I was doing.
00:11:20 Like the whole graphic design, you know, making mailers for people and all this just didn't feel like really satisfying. And it was a real kind of one of those moments in life where you just, you kind of, you know, have this, I don't know what it was, it was just this real awakening, like, okay, there's gotta be something better.
00:11:45 Like, I think I meant to do something different. And it really, I think my mother like was speaking to me because my mother had passed several years before that, and she kept on coming into my mind of, you're meant to work with children. And it's something that she had always told me, like, you're so, you're so wonderful with children. You, you know, you have this great relationship with them and it's true. I'm, I'm always that, you know, weird relative who's on the floor playing with the kids. Like I just, I much rather be hanging out with the children than than the adults sometimes. And, and so I decided that, okay, well maybe that is what I am meant to do.
00:12:29 And started really looking into what those possibilities were. And there was something that was also stuck in my mind is this idea of Montessori. I was very intrigued with Montessori. That was the only book that I had read when I was expecting my first child. She wrote a book, the Secret of Childhood that had really helped me be the parent that I became and so forth. So I looked into the Montessori training and it just so happened that in San Diego there was a internationally known training center. And so I called them, and it was a time when I had asked at work to have like, I think it was, you know, one Monday a month or something, just when you're a parent with young kids, you just need some time to yourself.
00:13:24 And that was kind of the negotiation I had had with them. And so that Monday I remember calling the, the training center thinking that it was, you know, kind of like a college where there would have a spring semester and winter semester. And so I was really calling to have information about possibly, you know, joining in a few months or something.
00:13:48 And on the phone, the woman said, oh no, we're, we're a year-round program and it started last week, so if you're interested, you can come in tomorrow morning at 8:00 AM and meet the director. I'm like, okay. And that was a day where my life just, just changed 360 degrees because when I hung up that phone, I knew something big was about to happen. And I called work and I said, you know, tomorrow I'm gonna come in a little late, I have an appointment. I went in to meet the director of this training center. She, you know, had me sit down and it, again, it was one of those walking into that room, you know, you have that feeling of, oh my gosh, this is, it was like my ancestors were with me. It was, it was very, very, very bizarre. And she sat me down and she said, why are you here? And I said, well, I truly believe that children are way more capable than we give them credit for. And she said, oh, well you've come to the right place.
00:14:57 And invited me to sit in on her lecture that she was about to give. And it was this beautiful lecture on the development of movement. And I was like, okay, this is where I need to be. And I actually went back to work. I gave my two weeks notice and ended up being a full-time student at age 43 and that, you know, and then after that I was actually offered a job at the training center to run their model classroom and just, you know, fell in love with the Montessori curriculum, the method. I ended up doing a master's in Montessori education, then went back and did a birth to three certificate. So now I am certified from birth to six. So the first six years and worked in the classroom for about five years.
00:15:56 But very quickly realized, and it's funny because at the beginning it was like, I didn't want to deal with the parents. Right? I was so happy to be in the classroom with the children. The children were beautiful, wonderful. And it's like, please, you know, don't, like, I don't, I don't want to, to to, to deal with the, the, you know, hangups the parents have. Yeah. But I quickly realized that, and I think it was because I was an older teacher, right? Most of them were, were much younger than I was. I was one of the only ones that actually had my own children, that the parents really came to me for guidance.
00:16:36 And that's when I realized that my work was meant to share this knowledge with parents. Because being a parent myself and learning all of this, I was like, oh my gosh, why didn't anybody tell me all of this before? Like, this is like such valuable information for parents that, you know, it needs to be shared, you know, wide and in, and all of this. So after, you know, six years at the school, I decided to go off on a limb on my own. I was 50 at the time and decided to start my own business, which is really, you know, mentoring parents and really sharing the knowledge of Montessori to anyone who is interested. And I really love, love, love working with parents from the beginning. So when they're expecting to really kind of plant those seeds of what is possible, especially how to set up our homes, how to prepare ourselves. And so now today I do a lot of work with parents, but I also do a lot of work with schools. Some schools who might have heard about Montessori, who want to maybe implement some principals will have me come in and, you know, and observe and mentor their teachers. So it's, it's, you know, with with with time, it's, I've done quite a bit of traveling. I've authored a book in French, the a hundred Golden Rules of the Montessori Method, and I'm just, you know, am passionate about sharing this information with parents worldwide.
00:18:20 Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. You know, just going back a little bit, so I was also a graphic designer,
00:18:28 Okay.
00:18:28 At 17, I tried to get into art school and, and failed miserably. And my dad got me a job as a tea girl in an advertising agency, and I, and I learned the, the old Art of Pasteup.
00:18:41 Right, right. That's what, that's how I started. Yep.
00:18:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you've got the, the, the drafting tables, you've got the, you know, all of the, the, the bromides and everything like that where you, you Know Exactly. That's all out sticking it. And, and the, the, you know, the Mac classic is where I first started with with Apple, so, so quite, quite similar actually. And now we started out, but I'm, I'm really, so I've got three children.
00:19:07 Okay.
00:19:07 Mine Are all grown, grown up, grown up ish. My youngest is, they all still live at home, thank goodness, I love having them at home. My youngest is 18, my eldest is 23, and my daughter's 22. And I was just, you, you were just kind of going through everything and, and I, I have heard a Montessori, but I, I, I don't really know the principles and, and what happens, but it just, something kind of grabbed me when you were talking about how you taught or how you worked with parents before their babies were actually born, how to prepare the house, how to prepare themselves. And I'm thinking, oh my God. I mean, I'm lucky enough to have a really supportive family. So when my babies were, were due, my, you know, my mum was there, my sisters had, had already had babies. So that was very supportive. But nobody tells you, nobody prepares you for that complete and utter change. You know, it's like, oh, the baby's not gonna change me. And then all of a sudden you've got this tiny little thing in a, in a car seat, and you're both sitting there looking at it terrified. I'm fascinated as to, you know, what you can do to help new parents prepare their, their surroundings of, and what to do for, you know, when they have new baby. Because that, that's massive.
00:20:32 It is, it is massive. And, and I think, you know, we really do a disservice to humanity and families by not preparing ourselves for one of the most important roles that we play, you know, as, as caregivers and, and providers and, you know, these, these human beings that are 100%, you know, dependent on us and, and we're, we don't do anything to, to prepare. And what is fascinating though, I think in like human psychology is I know working with parents and, and recently I've become a birth doula, which is kind of a labor birth labor support person.
00:21:13 And that has been, that has been wonderful to, to be there from the beginning. But it seems to me like most humans who are about to have a child, are so focused on the actual birth that they do not even take into consideration what the hell that means for the rest of their life, right? It's like they're so, like, how am I gonna get this thing outta my body that they don't even like think about? Well, then you're gonna have this, you know, being that is dependent on you, and that's gonna be around for the next, you know, 18 to 20 years. And, and you know, what, what does that mean? And so for me, the way that I help them is first of all to give them a picture of what is to be expected in the developmental aspects.
00:22:11 So I do a little bit of, you know, what is going on prenatally, like what is, what is actually developing? Because I mean, it's truly magical when you start looking into it and then, you know, really help them prepare the whole birth experience because we know that birth is, you know, a very precious and, and, you know, important time in our life, both as the birthing parent, but also for, for the human that is about to be born. Like our, our birth experience is a first like, major, major experience. So making sure that they're, they're prepped for that and that they, you know, have the best experience possible. And then it's really about looking at our homes where we live in a very adult centric environment, right? Even you, like you, the artist you are, the artwork that you ami admire is that your visual height, a newborn who is crawling around your home will see none of that unless you bring some of the artwork down low.
00:23:25 Do you know that how, how I didn't even, doesn't even register, does It?
00:23:31 It doesn't. No, it doesn't. Because we are adult centric and we, we just, and even, you know, even today when I see pictures of these gorgeous, beautiful nurseries, they are there for the adults. The, the, the photos are up at their height, the bed is up high, everything is up high, and there's nothing developmentally appropriate for a newborn.
00:23:59 So yeah, it's beautiful and cozy and all this, but what is there for this newborn who is developing? And we have to remember that these children come to us and, and I say they're divine little beings because they're, they're just a bundle of love and, and, you know, curiosity and just waiting for, for, you know, to just to, to, to blossom. So we have to be prepared to be in the presence of these divine, pure beings, right? And we need to prepare our environment. So I often say like, crawl around your home, like see it from their perspective, right? Like see it from their perspective. Even like you, I know you have, you know, you have dogs, you have prepared an environment for them. They have a special place to go to bed, they have a special place to eat. Well, it's the same thing with our children. It's about just preparing an environment that is going to be suited to their developmental needs.
00:25:04 And so in Montessori, for example, you know, setting up a nursery, well, I invite you to sit on the floor of that nursery and see it from their perspective. And we are actually encouraged not to even use a crib where we're actually put putting a mattress directly on the floor so that the child can actually have a vis visual sense of their room, of their surroundings, as opposed to being put in a container and seeing the environment from behind bars. Right? Their, their visual sense is developing, like give them, give them the full picture. And then there's also this idea of the freedom of movement. So it's true that a child, you know, on a, on a low mattress, well, they're gonna slither over to the edge and they'll slither right back because they're smart and they can feel the difference, right? And so it's, it's a lot about us as adults trusting the process and knowing that this is beneficial to them. So there we are going to make the entire room a very safe place because basically the entire room becomes that crib, right? The, the crib is really there for the adults to make us feel safe that, you know, we've put the, we've put the child in a container, we can walk away, we're fine. So here we're, we're making sure that the entire room is fine. And the beautiful process is that the child is intelligent enough to know that, you know, they, yes, they might roll off, but when they do, they'll realize, wait, it's, it's way more comfortable to stay on my mattress mattress than it is to, you know, sleep on the hardwood floor. So they will learn to, to, to stay on the bed. And the beauty with it is that when they are tired, well, they know where to go on their own. They don't have to wait for us to read their cues of whether they're tired and when they're rested, they're not gonna scream bloody murder of, you know, get me out of here. They will just crawl off and come see us or play with a toy that they have in their room. So it's really about focusing on the different developmental needs of the child, just like you would if you had a relative that came to visit that maybe had some, you know, physical needs, different needs, maybe they're in a wheelchair or maybe they're walking with a walker, well, you're gonna have to move some of that furniture out of the way to make them feel welcome and make them feel like they can move around their home. It's the same thing with a child. It's just the child's gonna stay around for a bit longer. But, you know, it's that same concept if is that we just need to, to arrange our home a bit differently. And I just like to remind, you know, remind parents or grandparents who, who are interested in all of that is that it's temporary. This is just, you know, it's a moment in time. They're not gonna be crawlers forever. So you are just kind of making sure that they can safely explore their homes. So, you know, if you might, if you have some precious things on your coffee table, well, it might have to go up on a shelf for, you know, a couple of years and, and it will come back down. Like it's all temporary and we're just making it easier for them to adapt to their time, place, and culture basically.
00:28:38 I mean, it does, it, it makes so much sense.
00:28:41 It does, it does. And it's funny because I saw you light up when I talked about the artwork, but I remember very well going into a, a home of this young family, and they had a, it must have been, you know, he was already crawling, so probably around nine months. And they had this beautiful, like, family room and she had created this beautiful wall of, of photos of like, all the family photos. And I suggested, well, why don't you just take the bottom row and put it way down low? And that made a huge difference because this little baby would crawl and be so intrigued. And this is a wonderful way for us to give language, to share stories about our family. And they, they, you know, they wanna be part of it. So it's just like little, little tiny little details and tweaks like that, that make a huge difference in their development.
00:29:38 Amazing. Amazing. I mean, I was, I, I have to admit, I was quite, I was quite lucky I had three babies that didn't really move around an awful lot at all. My first baby is just arrived home actually in his very loud car. He slept. My sisters were like, what have you done to them? He Used to sleep. Yeah. You know, I had, I had quite a nice routine actually. I'd put him down for a nap and he'd wake up and he'd be very happy and then he'd be like, right, can have another nap. But I, I really, I I, I understand, I I, I get that how that, how that would work. And it, I guess it becomes a way of a way of life, doesn't it?
00:30:18 I mean It does. It does. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that, and that to me is what Montessori really is about. It's really a way of life and it's, it's an understanding of human development and, and we call it like, it's, it's an aid to life, right? It's just us guiding and aiding life to develop naturally. So, you know, we don't use any type of, of restrainers or contraptions that, you know, the baby industry will make us believe that we, you know, we need all of this, excuse my language, crap, that we don't, like, we, we can keep our environments very simple, elegant, simple minimalist. We don't need to, you know, basically put our children in containers that they can't get themselves in and they can't get themselves out. So it's really about really letting the natural development unfold naturally. And, and, and, and it does, like within 12 months, you know, a child goes from being a fish in utero to slithering like a reptile to being on all fours to finally standing up. I mean, it's amazing. It's like human evolution right there in front of us. And so we need to respect that and really honor it and just simply observe and, and be an aid and, and guide them. Yeah. That's, that's really, that's it.
00:31:48 No faff. Absolutely fascinating. And, and, and very, I mean, very different I guess to a, to a traditional way of, you know, bringing up children. But things are changing so much, you know, and not just now, I mean, things have been changing for, you know, for years. Having different ways of bringing up your children, I think is wonderful because it, it just allows you to, you know, some might, some people might say, oh, you know, actually that's not gonna work for me because of X, Y, z, and, you know, absolutely fine. But other people might be, you know, this is good. This is just amazing. This is exactly how,
00:32:27 And I think, yeah, and I, and you bring up a really good point is that there is no cookie cutter way to parent. Like, you really have to tune in with what makes sense to you. And I truly, truly believe in my heart that if we kind of tune in and, and, you know, quiet the chatter that is around us, that is in our mind that, you know, especially now with social media where we're, you know, comparing and all this, it's like if we really hone in on what do I need, what does my child need? We know, we know in our heart what is, what is, you know, important to us. And it's, it's interesting cuz it reminds me of that first lecture that I, that I was sharing, that I sat in on, that was about movement. She was talking about, you know, the importance of letting child develop naturally. So,
00:33:21 like I said, to not put them in, you know, constraining situations and so forth. And, you know, I could talk about that, but there's really a lot of what you can do at home. And I remember like being in that lecture going, oh, okay. So that's what I did. Because at the before when we were living outside of Paris, we lived on the fourth, fourth story, you know, an apartment building with no elevator. And I remember very well, like when we would come into the building, my daughter would like really push to get out of my arms. She wasn't yet walking, she was crawling, and she would crawl up those four flight of stairs, and she was the happiest baby when she got to the top.
00:34:06 So, you know, sure it wasn't the cleanest thing or whatever, but I was following her lead, right? And she needed that movement, that gross motor movement to be able, and so it's really about being in tune with what your child is, is kind of asking for and being very observant. And, and when I say observant is really being like a scientific observer where you're not,
00:34:37 you're not labeling, you're not putting your own emotional baggage on top of it. You're not comparing it, you're not, you know, judging it. You're just seeing and observing and noticing without, without any judgment, right? Yeah. And it's, and it's, and it's fascinating because children know what they need and they will let you know. So just be open to, to hearing it.
00:35:02 Yeah, no, definitely. I'm just, I'm just kind of sitting and, and, and taking it all in. I'm thinking, do you know, this is, it, it, this is wonderful. And my thinking is that actually, you know, we decide to have children like, you know, I got married, I just, we decided we wanted to have children. Well, I always wanted to have children. I come from a, a big family, a very happy, big family. And I think one of the biggest challenges is we have children and we then have to carry on living a life. That means we have to go to work, you know, we have to do this, we have to do that, we have to do the other. I'm not saying everybody has to do that. I was quite lucky I was working for myself. So I actually spent quite well, I spent the first four years with all of my children with them at home, which was, which was fantastic. And I know that's not what everybody can do. I know my, one of my older sisters, she, well, she didn't have to go back to work, but, well, she did have to go back to work because she had to earn a living. And she was back at work within sort of, I think about six months. And it, and it broke her heart, but she had to put her child into nursery. And then of course, you know, how do we have children and, you know, be able to do all of the observing and actually living, you know, with, with our children and not be distracted by, well obviously we're gonna be distracted, but not, it is almost like we have children and they, they come and then we just have to live our life like we were before. And the children just have to sort of squeeze in. They just have to, you know.
00:36:48 Yeah. I mean, I think,
00:36:49 I'm not sure of making much sense.
00:36:51 Yeah, no, and you, you make total sense. And it's, and I think it's, it's a lot to ask of humans to, you know, to be able to juggle everything.
00:37:01 Like, and for me, like your, your life is going to change. Like when you become a parent, you can never go back like you are now a parent, you have this human being that is a hundred percent, you know, dependent on you. It's like your, your role changes. So yes, you continue to have your own passions, your, your work, your whatever. And I, you know, I encourage new parents to hone in on that and to respect that and to, you know, try to make time for it. But those first few years are going to be hard in trying to find a flow, because I don't even know if there is a true balance, right? There is, it's really about, again, observing your own needs, what, what you need. And I think at the beginning, I know for myself as, as you know, a birthing woman, all I wanted to do was just snuggle up and cuddle and I was so happy to be home and, and, you know, breastfeed and all that.
00:38:08 That's not everybody, not, you know, some, some, you know, birthing parent might not enjoy that and would rather, you know, go back to work as soon as they can. So again, it's about being respectful of what your needs are. And I think that our society definitely, and I think some countries do it properly, where there is more of a priority to families where we understand that these beginning years of a human's life is very important for them to have a good attachment with their parents. That they, you know, that if parents can stay home for a bit, it would be great. You know, here where I am in the US there is no mandatory maternity or paternity leave. It is up to every employer to do whatever they please. And some people have none. Like they go back to work after two weeks. It's just,
00:39:13 it's, it's inhuman to, to do that. So some families, you know, if you can save up your money a few years so that you can take time off, make sure you are employed by a company that understands the importance of family and so forth. But I mean, to me it's like, there, there's a whole like mind shift in, in, in families that we need to understand that, you know, birthing humans need time to recuperate for one. Like it's a big ordeal to be pregnant for nine months and to push out a human. So you need time to recuperate and you need time to bond and, and all of that. So, you know, to, to, it's a long, a long answer to your question, but it's more, it's like society and also us preparing ourselves. So whether you are, you know, saving up so that you can take some time off, or you are making sure that you have a relative that is close by that can help out. Like it's really about creating our village around us to support us, you know, just like you felt supported today, we parent in such isolation, right? We're, we're, we're far from our families. Sometimes we might not get along with our own family, so we don't really want them around. So find the people that you do want around that are going to be supportive, that are going to, you know, come hold the baby while you take a shower that are things like that. So you can have that help. Like for me, those first few weeks after birth are so critical to get you back, you know? Yes. Like, physically well, mentally well, well-nourished. So we don't get into, you know, all of the mental disorders that we can have during pregnancy or after pregnancy.
00:41:15 Like, we're very fragile and I think as a whole, we need to be taking care of our mothers and our fathers, you know, way, way more than we do to really prioritize that. And then your question about, you know, observing is like you observe every little opportunity that you have, you know, and I would even invite our listeners to, to observe when you are in a queue at the grocery store, like, don't pull out your phone and look at your phone. Like, look around you, what are the other humans doing? What are, what are, you know, how are the children interacting with their parents? Like, observation is around us, like go out in nature and, and watch the trees and the birds and all this. Like, it's something that I think is, is within us, but we have let it go to scroll on our phones and ignore
00:42:11 Yeah.
00:42:11 What is around us. So, you know, we can be constantly observing. And so when we are home, we observe our children, we observe, and observation to me is really kind of this idea of 24 hour seven mindfulness practice, really because we're observing our own, you know, reaction to a situation. You know, our child is, is, is having a meltdown over, you know, the fact that his pink cup wasn't clean. Well, what, what reaction, what, what's happening to us during that? Like, can we get ourselves calm so we can have empathy for this child who, you know, is having the worst day of their life because their pink cup is dirty? Like, let's, let's, you know, be calm ourselves. So when we're observing, we're observing ourselves our own reaction. We're observing our child and we're observing how our child interacts within the environment, and that's where we can learn to better prepare the environment, right? If maybe a child is constantly asking for something that we need to get for them, maybe let's rethink that, maybe that cup or something that they keep on asking for, maybe we can put it down on a low shelf where they can get it themselves, right? So we're really observing everything all the time.
00:43:39 Yeah. Makes, it, makes, it makes so much sense. And so you are from, from birth to six. Yes. And you talked about the, the birth, is it the do doula Birth, birth doula? Yes, Yes, yes. So what's I, I have heard about it, but I don't really know. I mean, my, my children are, so they're not children anymore, they're young adults, so I don't really kind of get into the, the baby stuff anymore.
00:44:09 Right, right.
00:44:10 What does that involve?
00:44:12 So, so a doula is a term that is used for a person who is going to be really there for emotional and physical support. So they are not a medical person. Like I, I do not have medical training. I am there to really be of support to the birthing families, basically, you know, when I have a, a private client, they will call me usually, you know, in the, during the third trimester, they're starting to plan, they know where they're going to birth and so forth. And so they're looking for somebody who's just gonna be there for them to advocate for them sometimes because they might have, you know, a certain idea of how they want the birth to go. And we know that, you know, when we're birthing, we're kind of in the zone and we can't be talking to people and planning things. So the Doula is kind of there for that. And the doula is basically someone who is going to be there with the birthing families until they meet their baby, as opposed to, you know, when you're in a hospital setting, for example, whether you have a doctor or a midwife, well, they're on a routine. So if you haven't had your baby by the time they leave for their day, you're gonna have another midwife or another nurse and so forth. But the doula promises to be there for as long as it takes for, you know, for them to meet the baby.
00:45:45 So that's one thing. And we're trained basically with kind of, you know, different types of massage or pressure points. We we're making sure that the birthing parent is, you know, drinking enough water, is well fed, is moving around, and we're there for the moral support, right. Of really especially if you have a person who really wants to do an unmedicated birth, for example. Well that's gonna take a lot of willpower and you have to like, you know, get through those very, very strong sensations that your, your body is going through. So the do life, the doula knows that this is something that's really important to them. We're gonna, you know, be their cheerleader and say, you've got this, you know what to do, you know, keep breathing and show them maybe different techniques and all that. So it's really a labor support person that does not have medical training. So there are doulas who are, you know, maybe nurses or, or have midwifery training, but for the most part it's really a, a emotional physical support. And also therefore the partners, because, you know, the partners sometimes freak out, they don't understand what's going on, so you kind of translate things and you know, if the nurses are saying what they're gonna do, you, you know, let the mother know, like, is that okay with you? And so forth. So it's being, you know, I think used more and more, and we have, there are statistics that are showing that women who have a doula, who have, have a support person with them, have a much better experience. You know, it's usually less medical intervention if they have somebody that they can lean on.
00:47:40 Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And are you, are you welcomed into hospitals and stuff? It's not, I, I guess hospitals, different hospitals for different things, but sometimes, I mean, I would hope that you are welcomed in and it's all, you know, something.
00:47:55 Well, But no, it's a great question because I think it really depends on where, right. I am. I live in San Diego in Southern California that is a beautiful, very natural birth community. There's a lot of home birth, there's a lot of midwives, doulas. So it's something that is very accepted, but I'm sure there's parts of the country where they're gonna say, no, you can't come in or whatever. I mean, during the pandemic it was hard because private doulas weren't allowed to go in.
00:48:30 Like the, the birthing person was only allowed to have one support person. So if they chose to have their partner with them, the doulas were not allowed to go in. If they had nobody then, then yes, the doula could go in. But that was, you know, that was the, the pandemic norms. And I think it really depends, you know, where, where I was trained is actually at the hospital of the university. So it's a teaching hospital and they have a service now, I think for 25 years where it is volunteer doulas. So we are on call, the nurses or the midwife will offer the birthing person, you know, would you like a doula? And then we get called in.
00:49:18 So this is a very different type of environment and, and we're more than welcome. The nurses love us because they don't need to be, you know, in the room the whole time because they know we're there. So, but yeah, it's, it's a great question because not everybody wants somebody else and No, no, not a lot of people want somebody who's gonna question them, right?
00:49:44 Yeah.
00:49:44 Because there are some practices that are still, you know, want to intervene, want to do a cesarean when maybe it's not really necessary or want to do an epitomy when it's not really necessary a doula. If she knows that her client does not want that, she's gonna advocate. So, yeah. You know, maybe some medical teams wouldn't want somebody in there, you know, questioning them. So, so yeah.
00:50:13 Yeah. I mean, what a, what, what a, a wonderful thing to be doing though, you know, to be supporting parents and then to be there, you know, a absolutely wonderful re just, just brilliant.
00:50:27 It's definitely my happy place.
00:50:29 Yeah,
00:50:30 Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:50:32 I had, I had three C-sections.
00:50:34 Okay, okay.
00:50:35 Yeah. I, Yeah.
00:50:36 So the doula will go in with the, with those having a cesarean as well, right. Because it can be, it can be very unnerving. So I'm just right there, you know, holding your hand Hand.
00:50:50 It's terrifying. Yeah. It, well, it's not terrifying, but it's, it's, you know, you've got the, you've got the, the, yeah. You know, the, the, the blue curtain or whatever, and then you can feel the, the say, you're gonna feel a bit of rummaging in your stomach and you're like, oh my goodness. And it really does feel like somebody's doing the washing up in there.
00:51:09 Yeah, yeah.
00:51:09 You know, and, and you have, you know, no idea. And then your husband kind of peeps over and then goes very white and then, you know.
00:51:17 Yeah. I don't re I don't recommend anybody peeking Over.
00:51:20 No, no,
00:51:21 I Did, I did once and it was, it was, it was rough.
00:51:24 Yeah. Well, it it's just awful, awful. He's like bloody hell Bon. Yeah. But, you know, but at the end of the day, all that matters is, you know, a, a, a healthy baby and that, you know, exactly want, but, you know, it's, I I what what a what an absolute honor to be able to be with somebody while they have their baby is just,
00:51:44 It is, it's, it's an incredible experience. Like I, you know, people will thank me and I said, no, it was such an honor. Like, thank you for letting me, you know, witness this because it's, I mean, it's just such a miracle of life. And then, you know, and then you see these newborns that are just ready to, you know, ready to go.
00:52:06 We, I dunno whether you have it in the, in the States, but we have a series on the BBC here, call The Midwife and it's set in the sixties.
00:52:15 Yes, We do. We do. Yes. I've seen that.
00:52:17 It's my, it's my favorite program. I live, we've got a new series going on at the moment, and it's my, I live for my Sunday evenings at eight o'clock when call the midwifes on. I'm just sitting there. I just love it. Yeah, absolutely love it. And I see, I almost see there was more care back in the sixties, but now
00:52:39 Definitely, definitely. And, and, and depending also in what country, like I had my first child in France and then my second child here in the US very, very different maternal care, very different prenatal care, postpartum care. You know, I think it's important to do your research and, and kind of know what you want and, and like I said, you know, plan and, and make sure you've got your, your village around you because it's a, it's a, it's a role that we need support and yeah.
00:53:16 No, definitely. Gosh, that has been absolutely wonderful talking to you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing.
00:53:24 Well, thank you. You thank you for having me. I've, I've, I've definitely enjoyed sharing this with you and I, and I just love what you're doing and, and you know, letting us share what what we're doing in our lives I think is wonderful.So thank you.
00:53:39 It's, It's, it's, you know, it is just so lovely to, this is what I love about podcasts as a whole. You listen to somebody talking about their life and their story and whatever, and it doesn't matter who that person is and what they do, you learn something new. And I love that. And that's why, you know, I want to talk to people I know, and I want to talk to people who, you know, I don't necessarily know. And I, I think these conversations straight off, you know, we've, we've never met each other before and we're straight off having a conversation. There's something really special about that initial conversation when you meet someone.
00:54:14 There is, There Is
00:54:15 You get these little things that, that, you know, you, you wouldn't get if you did a rehearsal.
00:54:22 Oh, no, not at all. No, no. And, and, and I love the way you are, you are just, you know, conversing. I know I've been on other podcasts where, you know, there's very specific questions or, or things like that, which, you know, whatever, however, but I have, I have a podcast called The Art of Parenting. And I have really, really enjoyed, like you say, having conversation and every single time I learn something new, right? And I'm, I'm focused on really, you know, bringing information and support to other parents. But I just love interviewing experts, you know, in the parenting field who, you know, might be some well-known psychologist or author or whatever, but when you ask them, you know, about their own parenting, it's like, it's rough too. It's not because you've got, you know, a PhD that it's gonna be easier. And it, and I just think, to me, that is just like sharing that information to other parents kind of normalizes that Oh yeah, this is an important role that we have and everybody is on the same page.
00:55:36 Yeah. So, yeah, Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Well, it's been absolutely lovely talking to you. Thank you so much.
00:55:44 Well, thank you for having me, Bonny.
00:55:47 Oh, no, I've, I've really, really enjoyed it. Thank you. And hopefully I'll see you in the, in the Facebook group, James' Facebook group.
00:55:55 Yes. And I hope to see you live if you come out in the fall. I think It's, that would be really nice. Yeah. That, that's definitely something that's being planned for sure.
00:56:05 Okay. Wonderful, wonderful.
00:56:07 Oh, lovely. Thank you so much, Jeanne-Marie, for
00:56:10 Thank you Bonny.
00:56:11 And yeah, I hope we catch up again very soon.
00:56:14 We will, we will. Okay. Thank you.
00:56:16 Thank you. Bye bye.
00:56:17 Bye-bye.
00:56:18 I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my, It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show or sharing it on social media with those you know, who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my community's experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community. And to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet, please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the Coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com. And remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time,
