00:00:06 Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex-corporate person and mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision, and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curve balls, waves of self-doubt, and so many lessons learned. And you'll see Ignite my thriving online coloured pencil artist community, a community that changes members' lives for the better, and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me. It used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the, it's a Bonny old life podcast to help increase people's confidence,
00:00:50 share mine and my community's experience, and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate coloured pencil artist or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cup and a cu of cream, let's get cracking.
00:01:19 I love to chat into my next guest, an artist from California using a very different medium to me and different subjects, but we had a real connection. I think we share the love of business and it was just, honestly, I could have just chatted forever and we're gonna, I think, make time to sort of hook up and have a bit of an accountability session every now and again. Enjoy. There's some fabulous, fabulous things that come outta this session. The wonderful Jennifer Ray.
00:01:48 Hi Bonnie. Hello.
00:01:49 How are you?
00:01:50 I'm doing great. It's so great to see you.
00:01:52 Good. Yes, you too. I've been so looking forward to our chat this afternoon.
00:01:57 Me too, me too.
00:01:58 It's really nice to have a, a chat with another, another artist, another creative and, and somebody else who sort of does membership stuff.
00:02:08 I, you, you know. Exactly. It's, we have something in common and we also love dogs too.
00:02:13 So we do, We do because, well, we both have doodles, don't we? You've got a doodle.
00:02:19 Yes, labradoodle A Mini Labradoodle. Yes. And they're just the best.
00:02:24 They're, They're, well, I've got two, they, I call them Newfy cross poodle, but the, the, my parent name is NewfyPoo, so I've got two newfypoos.
00:02:35 Oh, how fun.
00:02:35 A and I've got a Cockapoo, but my cockapoo is more, more spaniel than poodle. She just Looks Yes. A work in Spaniel. So I've got, I've got those three in here. And then I have a, a dear hound as well who, he just, he doesn't grace us with his presence most of the day.
00:02:55 Well, I have to resist from getting more dogs, so,
00:03:00 Oh God, honestly, just don't, don't resist. Just get more.
00:03:03 Just get more, yeah.
00:03:04 Just Get more. That, that's my dream. My daughter and I used to say, do you know, we, when we, when we make millions and we're really, really rich, we'll just get a big house with lots of land and we'll just get lots of dogs.
00:03:16 Yes. That's actually what my daughter and I used to talk about as well, cuz she's very dog crazy too. She's 23 now, so,
00:03:24 Oh. So quite similar to my, my daughter's 22.
00:03:27 Ah, see another thing in common.
00:03:29 Very good. Oh gosh. So you are in, you're in California? Yeah.
00:03:33 Yes, Southern California. And pretty much live my whole life here, except for one semester in Florence, Italy studying art. But yes, fourth generation Californian.
00:03:45 Gosh, gosh, Florence is just, absolutely, I, I, when I did my two years as an art student, when I was 17, I went to Florence and I've never been back and I, and I really would love to go back. It is the most beautiful place,
00:04:00 Isn't it Incredible? And it just, it was amazing to study in the classroom and then go out and see what we were studying. There's just so much inspiration there. Yeah. So, yeah.
00:04:12 Amazing, Amazing. Talk to me about what you do now because you, you are an artist mentor.
00:04:18 Yes. So I'm an artist and a mentor, so I got a degree in art, but I did the thing that you do back when you were in the a in the eighties when they say, don't be an artist, you're gonna be starving. So I went into business and it took me a long time to come back to my creative practice. I owned a company in the Silicon Valley where I did marketing communications and sales incentive programs for high tech companies.
00:04:47 And I used my creativity to the extent of branding and understanding color theory and how to make sure everything looked wonderful for these executive kits and that sort of thing. But it wasn't really being an artist. And after growing that company to eight figures, which was an amazing accomplishment, I ended up ill and I was the kind of entrepreneur that could never take off all the hats. I was a control freak, I was a workaholic and it was a learning experience, to say the least.
00:05:20 So when my daughter was very young, I decided to stay home and start exploring my creativity again. And so that looked like I looked into photography and interior design, and I even did art quilting and I finally came back to painting and drawing. And so that's what I do now. And I focus primarily on florals and botanicals using watercolor, acrylic, wash, some pencil work. And I also do portraits and the female figure exploring really from the female gaze because a lot of our film and art and television has all historically been done from the male gaze, right. Men at the top of those industries. And so I, some of my work explores how can we make women look strong and feminine and have it come from the female gaze. And I tend to blend botanicals with females or portraits, but most of my, most of my works around florals.
00:06:20 Hmm.
00:06:21 And so I do that. And then in addition to that, I mentor other artists and for the last several years I've been a college admissions consultant, which I kind of fell into while my daughter was applying to college. And about 40% of those students were applying to visual arts programs, so animation, illustration, fine arts, photography. And I worked with them to create their portfolio over several months. And that's where I really learned about different art types of artists and different struggles that artists were having. And it inspired me to move over into the adult side and change my focus from college admissions really to working with adult artists. I love the students and I love the families, but I just didn't feel aligned to that as much as I did to working with adults. And so that's kind of where I am now in terms of what I do.
00:07:20 How nice. So do you find, you get, do you find, you get people who are sort of coming to art a little bit later on in life, maybe they've done sort of similar to you. They've worked in corporate and then they've like, oh, you know, gosh, want to be creative. And then, so how I started was I, that's exactly how I started. I worked in corporate and then started drawing, started colouring, you know, just for mindfulness really, and to sort of get away from the stresses and strains of, of everyday life. And then slipped into, oh, people want a commission blah, blah, blah. And then kind of became a full-time artist and be, because I had that whole business background, marketing background, all of that kind of thing. And I didn't find it that difficult to then grow my business, but I find a lot of people have exactly the same story as that. But then they don't have the marketing background or the know-how to be able to grow their business. So that's where it then ends up being, you know, I really wanna do this but have no idea what to do. Is that the kind of thing that you do to help people?
00:08:24 Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think that's very common. And I see women in particular coming back into their, finding their creative, they've had some sort of creative calling and they haven't honoured that. So they're coming back into that at whatever particular stage they are in life. And many times it's much older. Like I was, I just was denying that of myself. And part of it was just kind of this, when I went into the career world, it was wow, the women in the sixties paved the way so that you could go into the corporate world and, and be this executive, you know, and there was a strong cultural message not to be an artist and a lot of negative messages around being an artist in general. So yes, I do find that that's what is happening. And a lot of artists don't have the business experience and business is one of my passions.
00:09:09 So my college thesis was on how to run a business combined with a creative practice, basically all those years ago. So I love that and I love helping artists go from wherever they are to wherever they want to go. A lot of that is on the business side, but some of that is on the creative expression side. So I find that there's archetypes of artists, everyone of course is completely unique, but there are some themes that emerge. So some artists will be very technically skilled, they just get the technical side, but then they struggle with how to create something unique that really feels like their own creative expression. Right. And I'm sure you experience this or then there maybe the artist who has tons of creative ideas, but they have trouble getting the technical side. And then there's sort of, you know, everything in between. So there's certain things that I do with artists to help them focus in on what they wanna express and how to get to that next level.
00:10:07 Yeah. Yeah. Is as, as somebody like, like you as a, as a mentor, you know, we, it is almost like you can see into somebody and you can see the potential they have and you, and it's like, you just want to go, if you just did this, or if you just tweak that, or if you just sort of did some bits in your head mindset, mindset for, for, for me, I is huge. There's so many people who have those limiting beliefs. Procrastination is, oh my Goodness, so huge. So huge. And I find that coming out the, so my genre is Coloured pencil, and I find the procrastination coming out on with people wanting to store their pencils in a particular way, or label all of their pencils or swatch all of their pencils out which is, which is lovely, you know, I, I wouldn't stop anybody doing that, but it, it's almost, it gets in the way of them actually being creative and drawing something. Oh my gosh. To stack all of these, you know? And it, and it's really, really, really interesting when you hear all of those stories and you meet these people and you just think, oh my goodness, the procrastination that's going on here.
00:11:16 Yes. It, it, it's huge. Yes. And I can relate to that because sometimes I'm not in the mood to draw, like I want to draw and paint, but I'm not, I, I'm someone who's in my head a lot, so I'm thinking, thinking and I'm working on my business and I find the transition difficult. And if someone has young kids or they have another job, sometimes that transition's difficult. And one of the things that I have students do to try to get around procrastination is to create a ritual around their practice. So, for instance, one of the things that I do is I listen to music. For some reason, music helps me relax and make that transition more easily. The other thing I do is I'm a big tea drinker, which I hope someday I can come to England and have a proper cup of tea with you.
00:12:00 You know, honestly, when I saw that your, one of your, cuz I love that on your website, you've got, these are my, these are my top things and, and it was English breakfast tea.I'm like, yes,
00:12:13 Yes, I am a big tea. I have my tea right here. So for me, I have a cup of tea, I have a playlist of music. And the other thing that's really important is to never come to your workspace or your art space, I should say, without something in progress. And the way that I do that is I will be working on a painting. So I come back to my desk or my easel and I have the painting in progress and I go through that for an hour or two, and then I feel like I need a break or maybe there's something that needs to dry. And then what I'll do is I will use that creative inspiration time to lay out another composition or get something ready to go. And then when I come back to my workspace the next day, if I finished that other painting, I have something to start on. And I think where artists can get tripped up is if they come to the blank page,
00:13:02 Hmm.
00:13:02 You know, they know they want to do something. Maybe they even have a reference photo and they're, they know, hey, I really wanna draw this. But something about starting from the beginning can be difficult and lead to procrastination. So that's one tip I tell artists. Another one is to use a timer. This isn't always the best thing when you wanna relax and just draw, but sometimes if you're really trying to get something done, you can set the timer, use the Pomodoro technique. I don't know if you're familiar with that.
00:13:34 No, I wanna hear about that.
00:13:36 Yeah, so the Pomodoro technique, your listeners can Google it, but basically you get a timer and you set it for 55 minutes. And in that 55 minutes, the only thing that you are doing is a task at hand. In this case, let's say it's a difficult part of a drawing of a dog, of the dog, let's say. Right? So your students are drawing the ear and it's challenging. So for 55 minutes, all they do is they focus on that. And if something pops in their head like, oh, I need to go, you know, pick a, you know, get some groceries or whatever, they have a piece of paper there and they make a note of it and then they go back to the task at hand. And then after 55 minutes you have a five minute break, you stretch and then you go back to it. So I only recommend that when procrastination is, you know, pretty serious. But the thing is to really look about what is your ritual around creating art and try to set some things in like playing music or something that'll help you get into that.
00:14:31 Yeah.
00:14:31 That mode.
00:14:32 Yeah, No, I like that. It is almost like having a, you know, your own little, almost like having your own little theme tune. Ooh, do you know? I love that.
00:14:41 Yes.
00:14:41 Yeah, That's it. Now like in, I dunno whether you've watched the, the holiday where at the end where they create a little theme tune for Arthur and you go, yeah, you probably haven't got a clue what I'm talking about. But he goes up onto the stage and he's got his theme tune, and whenever he hears his theme tune, he's like, oh yeah, I can do this. This is great. And it just brings those, you know, those, those sort of like happy memories back. Oh, I love the sound of that.
00:15:06 Yeah. I, I actually, and sometimes I actually, it's embarrassing, but sometimes I will dance, I'll just like, you know, get into the, get into the groove and it just takes me to another place. It takes me outta my left brain, which is very, you know, I'm in my brain thinking to-do list tasks and it gets me into that creative flow. So super important. And, and the other distinction I like to make too, which is I think happens with people who don't do art or any kind of creative outlet or beginner artists, is they kind of have this feeling like artists sit down at their table or their easel and the skies open up and brilliance submerges. And it's just super easy. And, and so there's becomes this frustration like, why am I not producing immediately?
00:15:51 Yeah.
00:15:51 Something that I love, right?
00:15:53 Yeah.
00:15:53 And so there's this concept of deep work, and I learned about this through, your listeners may know Malcolm Gladwell, I don't know if you've read any of his books.
00:16:03 Oh, I haven't. I'm writing him down.
00:16:05 Yeah. So he, he's an author who focuses on sociology and psychology and one of his books called Outliers, he popularized the concept of 10,000 hours. And that's the idea that if you just spend 10,000 hours practicing, you're gonna be really great at something, right?
00:16:23 Yes, yes.
00:16:23 Well, the original researcher kind of pushed back on that and said, it's not just the 10,000 hours, a lot of it has to do with the instructor. So you are a great example in this Bonny, and you get amazing results for your students. So, and i, I hope it's on my to-do list this year to sign up for your Academy and learn some coloured pencils. I've never coloured pencils I wanted to, and so I'd love to, I'm, it's on my list to sign up. So anyway, but there's an interesting component to this whole 10,000 hours and there's a book by Paul Newport, he is a professor at Georgetown University in the US and he wrote a book, called Deep Work. And in that he wanted to figure out, is it the 10,000 hours or is it something else? And what he figured out by looking at musicians is it's the quality of practice. So when looking at tar pairs, the ones who came to the practice with an intention of making an incremental improvement and what they were doing were the ones who really excelled versus, you know, just going through the motions, oh, I'm coming to do my, you know, art and like you said, procrastinate or not really intent on in that, on that improvement. And you're a great example of this. If you look at where you started with coloured pencils and where you are now, you clearly came to your practice with this intention of making that incremental improvement.
00:17:52 Yeah.
00:17:53 So I really find there's, there's two modes to creativity and one is where we're in the creation phase, that's where we have the inspiration and we're in this flow state, and we're looking at motifs, right? And we're looking at reference photos and we're in designing our piece and we're, we're so inspired and excited. And then there's the production side of art. And I think that that's really not spoken about. And so that's where you have to really dig in and actually execute the thing that you're inspired to create, right?
00:18:22 Yeah.
00:18:23 And sometimes that's hard. Sometimes that's hard work. Sometimes that's a lot of hours. in fact, most times if you're creating something that you really want to be at a certain level of mastery. And I think that that's where the procrastination comes in because sometimes it's tedious. It's not always fun, fun work, right?
00:18:43 Yeah, No, I, I, I completely, I completely agree and I think, you know, I look back to when I first started and, and people have different lives and people have different priorities. And I go back to this time and time again. We all only have 24 hours in a day.
00:18:59 Yes. Right, Right.
00:19:00 And we make a choice as to what to do with those 24 hours. And people might say to you, yeah, yeah, but Bonny, you know, I've gotta do work and I've got children over. And, and when I first started learning coloured pencils, first started drawing colour with coloured pencils. I had a full-time job, I had three children, I had a husband. At that point I had horses. So my day was absolutely full. I had a nine to five job, you know, it was absolutely, I know I'm thinking back now and I'm thinking, oh goodness, I can't even think about that. But, you know, I still managed to get in drawing time because I was so passionate about it. And it wasn't a case of me coming back and going, oh, I need to draw, but I'm too tired, or I'll just wait for the weekend. It was like, I need to draw and I am gonna make time for this drawing and I am gonna do it. And if that means that I have to stop, I stopped doing the ironing, which was kind of gave me four hours back on a weekend. But, you know, there were things that I didn't have to do. I didn't have to sit in front of the television, I didn't have to be on social media. I didn't have to do all of those things. And I chose to make time for my drawing. I know everybody's different and I know, you know, I can't, could kind of have a, you know, dip into people's lives and go, well you, you know, you could change that change. But it, it's, the time is there. And if you really look at the time that you choose to use, you can find time to do something that that is a priority for you. And if you don't find time for it, and this sounds a little bit mean, but it's not a priority.
00:20:36 You're absolutely right. It is absolutely true. Because we all end up wasting time, you know, we do. I mean, there are just pockets of time that we end up wasting. So that's absolutely, that's absolutely right. You have to commit, even if it's 15 minutes a day, you know, over time that adds up. For sure.
00:20:54 Exactly.
00:20:55 And there's a, there's an art agent, her name's Lilly Rogers, and she always says, no one is gonna remember you for vacuuming, you know?
00:21:03 Yeah.
00:21:03 You know, no one's gonna remember you. Like you said, no one's gonna remember you for like cleaning the house or for this, but, you know, to be able to look back and see what you create over Yeah. Time. Even if it's a few, you know, a little bit. I have a, I have a client who, she works full-time and she really wants to have her creative business thrive. And she was, came to the meeting really sad and I said, look, I said, just if it's 15 minutes a day, over time, this is gonna add up. Don't get discouraged. Just find those pockets of creative time. And sometimes it takes, sometimes it isn't going and just working on your piece, sometimes it's getting out of the house and going to a cafe, right. And just soaking in your environment or going for a walk in the wildflowers or whatever it is. Just to kind of reset and get some inspiration to be able to even be in the mood to do that. Because sometimes, you know, fatigue is real, especially if there are kids in a full-time job. It's very hard to be creative when we're, we're exhausted. So I always say, at least carve out, you know, if it's that one hour weekend, that's your time to create or get inspired. And that counts, that counts as a creative practice if you're going and looking for inspiration Right?
00:22:20 Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. I try to bring in quite a lot of sort of mindfulness and trying to get that mindset into a bit of a, a healthier place really. And I'm, I'm not somebody who worries about things, so I'm not someone who worries about my studio is a mess. It's a mess. You can't see it. I've, I've, well you can see it. The, my studio is a mess. And I was, I was reading through your thing on your website and the other top tips for creativity, declutter, and you know, you are so right.
00:22:51 Yeah.
00:22:51 Because I know my desk, I've got, I've got a drink bottle here, I've got a drink bottle there, I've got some post here that needs to be, needs to be looked at. I've got pads everywhere, I've got paper everywhere. I've got my makeup thing there. I've got cameras sat everywhere. You know, I've got other bits and pieces here and I'm thinking, how can you possibly have like a calm space if you, you've, you've just got everything everywhere. And I'm such a messy person. I've always been a messy person that, you know, and it doesn't bother me until it bothers me.
00:23:24 Right, right. Yes. No, I, I mean, I, I have the same situation. If my studio, if you can see it, I have a lot of mess. But what happens is I make sure that at least once a week I go through and I just move it. Even if I don't have time to clean it up, I just move it or put it away something. Cuz that space has to be clean, otherwise it, it just feels bad. You know? It just, it just, just, there isn't the, it's about creating the space for that creativity. And that's part of that ritual of playing the music, having the tea cup, having that little space, just little space that's beautiful and ready to go to, to create. And so,
00:23:57 No, absolutely, and this is something that I've been, I've been thinking about this morning and I'd be really interested to see how you do this. Cause you, you, you must make videos, you must do the face to camera stuff and, and all of those kinds of stuff. And I don't, we love those face to camera videos.
00:24:15 No, you won't. You won't find many of them on. I need to get better at that.
00:24:20 Oh Gosh. I do them and I tend to do them with no makeup. I put, I put a reel on, on Instagram this morning of me going, I'm just about to do some videos, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I put it up on, on Instagram and then I got a load of messages going, are you okay? You look really tired. Oh, I took it down. Cause I, I was really tired, but not because there's anything wrong with me. I'm just, I was just really tired. But I have been, I'm really wanting to upgrade my equipment so that, that's one thing. But then I'd really like to have a space in my studio. I've got quite a big studio. It used to be our living room. So it's, it's quite a big, it's got three big windows, is is a really nice space.
00:25:03 And I was sitting here this morning thinking, do you know what would be really, really brilliant is to have a dedicated space with lighting, with a camera set up with a chair. I can just pull up, sit down and go, right. I'm just gonna do a face to camera rather than pulling out, oh, I've gotta pull out this camera, I've gotta get this, this ring light, you know, and try and find somewhere on my cluttered desk to put the flipping thing. And thi and I could do that. I could very easily set up a space and I don't know what's stopping me.
00:25:35 I don't either, because I just did that because what I realized is, especially around these tech things as artists, were not necessarily like, that's, maybe it's my age, I don't know, but I, I really find them hard. And so my new thing is to make everything easy to do because if it's not easy, I'm not gonna do it when it comes to something like doing videos or things that don't come naturally to me. So I just did that. I set up a dedicated space. I have a desk and then I have the proper lights and I have a camera, excuse me, with a teleprompter because I'm gonna be recording horses and the boom mic on there and I'll send you my list because I,
00:26:16 someone help me. Please send it all to me. Especially the teleprompter. Oh my God. The, the amount of times I sit there and I go, I've got so many bloopers, hi, I'm Bonny Snowdon. And then something happens. I can't remember what I'm supposed to be saying. I'm like, oh, come back again. Hi, I'm Bonny Snowdon. I'm like, oh my God, this is crazy. That would be amazing to have a teleprompter on a, on a camera.
00:26:39 Yeah. It is really amazing. Cuz you, you actually can just upload your script from your computer, put it on your phone, and then the teleprompter's there and you read it and record. So that's what I'm doing. Cause I have two courses coming out and I just had to get it done. But it's nice too because on that same desk, I, I put a white, it's like a white platform and that's where I do a lot of my filming if I wanna do a flat lay overhead of my art to post on Instagram. So it works really, really well. And then I'm not changing my actual art space. And then I have my easel set up and then I have a table where I do watercolours and wash.
00:27:14 So yeah, I've tried to make it as easy as possible to yeah. To make it happen.
00:27:19 I need to rethink because I'm just one of these people that makes do
00:27:24 Ah, yeah, no, if you have the space, absolutely. Set it up and, and also, you know, make your art space something that you really want to come to rather than feeling like
00:27:35 Yeah, I like it. I do, I do like it in here. I've got, all my dogs are usually in here. I've got dog beds all over the floor. That's the problem.
00:27:43 They're Just, it's so great. I know. I have my dog. She's right here too. I mean you have to have your animals around when you're creating for sure.
00:27:51 Yeah. Oh God, no, I'd be really, really interested in that because that, like you say, you know, if you've got something already set up
00:27:59 Yes.
00:28:00 Then it's, then it's not a, you know, not a problem.
00:28:03 It's Not a problem. Yeah,
00:28:04 No, no. And do you know, it's funny because I think, I don't think people realize what goes into like, you know, production, art, production, creating things for other people to help them. I don't think people really realize the amount of work that goes that goes into it.
00:28:21 Into it. Yeah. It's very time consuming. Especially what you do because you're doing tutorials which are just amazing and that takes a lot of time. Yeah, for sure.
00:28:31 Yeah.
00:28:31 So, so yes, set up your, set up your film space. I can't wait to see it. And I'm gonna send you, I will email you all my
00:28:38 Oh, thank you.
00:28:39 My equipment suggestions. So
00:28:41 Oh, that would be, that would be, that would be amazing. Cause I've, I've actually put a post into next level group today saying, I want, want to, you know, upgrade all my equipment, can somebody help me? Cause I have no idea what I'm doing. I mean, I do have an idea what I'm doing, of course I do. But you know, like I say, I just make do with stuff, but I could have things much, much better.
00:29:01 Right.
00:29:02 So yeah. Oh, that, yeah, that'll be brilliant. Thank you.
00:29:05 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:29:06 Amazing.
00:29:06 Yeah. So yeah, and it's kind of, it's also kind of that production thing we were talking about earlier. There, there are things in your creative practice if you're growing too, that you don't necessarily wanna do or it, they're hard. So, you know, like prepping canvases or setting up film spaces, I mean this is, this is hard, you know, not everything is creative, you know, creative things. So yeah, they live kind of separately, but, but I think if, if, if students can and artists can embrace that deep work concept of coming to every practice with the intention to make incremental improvements, I think that can really help and just kind of relax into that and over time make progress if, even if they only have a little bit of time. So, and I think it's, yeah, I think it's important to just fill, dispel the myth that, you know, artists are, all, artists are naturally gifted and come to their art and just brilliant. But actually there's a lot of hard work involved and anyone as you've proven with your academy can learn to draw.
00:30:06 Definitely.
00:30:07 You really can.
00:30:08 Oh, you know, absolutely. So I'm not gonna say I wouldn't class myself as being creative. I, I clearly am a creative person. I do clearly understand about color and everything like that. And I, and I am, you know, I'm a good coloured pencil artist and you know, but I wouldn't say I'm hugely creative with my ideas. That's something that I think I've got a little bit better at as I've sort of, you know, studied and, and, and worked on what I do. I do think I pick things up very quickly. And I think that's another, another thing for people to really understand. I'm actually, funnily enough doing a, a session this evening on the four levels of competence Oh, interesting. Which Is what I'm doing based around art and based around learning art. Right. You know, and I think some people pick things up much, much, much quicker than other people. And it's just how we as humans are.
00:31:09 Absolutely. And this, and this is what I experience too. Like I, I will have students who are the, the technical side just comes so easily to them, but then they struggle with what do I actually wanna say? And so it's just, it's just different strengths. And I have find other students are just, have all these ideas just, just bubbling out. They, they can't, you know, they can't contain them enough and, but then they kind of struggle with their technical side cuz it hasn't caught up to the number of ideas that they have.
00:31:36 Mm. Yeah.
00:31:36 And one of the suggestions I say too is if, if a student is feeling like they don't know where to go with ideas or they have too many ideas, is to work in collections. And I don't know if you have your students do this now, it doesn't always work in every mode of creativity. So for instance, a wallpaper artist would, you know, they're doing individual designs for that specific room or if you're doing a commission, obviously responding to what that commission prompt is. But in general, for someone's creative practice, if they want to kind of hone in on what they wanna express, it's easier sometimes to work in a collection. So let's say six pieces and it's either around a theme or a subject matter or maybe there's a one colour that goes through all of the pieces. But I think that's really helpful.
00:32:23 No, definitely. We've got, I've just done a little, little tiny, very quick, well quick for colour pencil two hour piece. It's a three by four and a half inch snowdrops. I've, I've suggested that we maybe have a look at doing a collection of these, of the, of different flowers, but in these smaller, almost like a small postcard type thing, you know, they're like, oh yeah, that'd look great. We could, you know, put them all in one frame or you know, put them all in. And I, I, I do think that's a really nice idea for somebody who's maybe is have lost their way a little bit. There, there's sort of think, I don't really know what to draw. There's so many photos out there, there's so many subjects out there and it's almost like it's overwhelming. So It's like, it, it's overwhelming. So I just can't do anything. So I think that's a really, really nice idea, thinking about a collection. Definitely.
00:33:14 Yeah. I think, I think it really helps students just focus in Yeah. And, and oh I that sounds so much fun to do flowers. Oh, I'm gonna have to, that's, I see I'm gonna have to join your Academy. I just have to do that. I just have to find the time I'm doing. Yeah. But yeah, I, so collections is something people can do to focus in and just, just what inspires them and going out and getting inspiration in their environment and figuring out what that is that inspire a lot of people are inspired by colour, some people are inspired by certain motifs. It just, it just depends on what, you know, every person's different. But yeah, collections is a good way to focus and, and it's a good practice. Even if someone has a sketchbook practice, say, okay, you know, this week I'm gonna work all with blues and I'm gonna see what I'd create with blues. Or, so they pick one aspect. Maybe it's the line weight, heavy line, thin line. I like lots of detail. And, and each artist should honour what they like and, and really respond to that. So I, I'm someone who likes a lot of detail and I, I went to a, sometimes I go and just get continuing education just to keep my skills up. And I went to a community based class in watercolor just for fun. And I got in there and there was about 60 women and the teacher was going over what the supplies were and we had these certain brushes and she walked by my desk and she picked up my teeny brush and she said, we do not use these little brushes. And, and you know, I just thought that was so funny. And I didn't go back because I understand there's certain things for the specific project we're doing, but don't ever tell anyone they can't use the supply. Right. I thought that was a terrible message. So I honour my teeny brushes now and they're like my favourite things, like, don't tell me I can't use my, they're like my spite brushes, I just wanna spite that woman. So anyway, but, but that's what it's about. It's really about finding even, you know, within coloured pencils, right. What, wait a line and what, you know, how much shadow what, what are the things that you wanna bring to your piece that are you uniquely you or you have fun doing?
00:35:26 Yeah.
00:35:27 Right.
00:35:27 Yeah. I do. You know, I absolutely agree. I mean, my niche really is that, that realism and realism does come from specific things. You know, contrast values details actually don't feature that heavily in, obviously you need some details, but the more realistic pieces are more about honoring the dark and light. But I have, you know, a couple of students who really, their style is so light, so beautiful and delicate and she'll be listening, Cerys, this is all about you. The, you know, going, making it arts really dark are just not gonna work. Right. And, and it's, and it's about really honouring your uniqueness and going, this is my style. I love my style. I can do my style and, and it suits me and this is what I'm gonna do. And even though yes, some people say I should do this, there are no rules.
00:36:27 Yeah. Right, right. I i I do think it's important to learn the basics. It's kind of like if we look at Picasso, he, he was an incredible realistic artist and then he broke the rules. And whether you like his things he did, I personally not that big a fan of, of what he ended up doing. But that's the point is if you can learn the fundamentals, which is really what you teach in your academy is like how to do the pencil drawing, then you can go ahead and have the creative license to do what you want. Once you understand value, right. Values and how to use the pencils, then you can have the creative freedom to really, to really find what your style is.
00:37:08 Absolutely. Absolutely. Talking about colour, you have a, you have a special colour, what's it called?
00:37:14 Yes, I have colour mastery, which is gonna be out in a couple weeks. Probably by the time this is out in the world, it'll be available. And that's really going beyond, there's some colour theory in it, but it's also teaching colour psychology and really how to create colour palettes. How to use colour to enhance your work. And so part of having a creative voice and figuring out what your style is, there are certain elements that you can use to accelerate your progress that, you know, you'll hear artists on the internet say, well you have to, you know, it's work hard, work hard, work hard and that's how you get better. But the truth is, you know, there is that production aspect we talked about the work aspect of, of coming to your practice and really putting in the time. But there are certain things you can do to accelerate your artistic voice and your practice.And one of them is by really understanding colour and how to use it and how to master it so that that's a good, a small course that's gonna be coming out. And then later in the year I have a course that's all around figuring out what your artistic voice is and all of those other elements that go into it to accelerate your practice and have it really feel like it's your own. Yeah.
00:38:24 Amazing.
00:38:24 So I'm very, I'm very excited about that.
00:38:27 I'm, Yeah, I'm signing up to that colour mastery. I'm, I guess I'm pretty good at colour theory, but I'm good at colour theory when it comes to coloured pencils. But I'm really interested in how other people see colour and how other people sort of perceive colour and you know, what their, you know, what your ideas about mixing and all of that kind of stuff is. Mixing coloured pencils is slightly different than mixing. Cause you mix on the paper,
00:38:52 Right, right. Yeah. It's Different.
00:38:54 Yeah. So when you talk about, when you, when you think about like colour wheel and stuff like that, and you've got the, the complimentary colours and stuff. You have blue, blue and orange, for example. Complimentary colours work beautifully together, look fantastic next to each other. And what you would usually do is use a complimentary or split complimentary in with coloured pencils to create things like shadows. But the thing is, if you bring in, so you, so say you've got a, an orangey coloured animal chestnut horse or something, if you bring in a dark blue into the, the, the, the orangey colour, because it's yellow based, it goes a bit murky and a bit green. And that's when you have to understand that you can go either way. You can either use the green
00:39:36 Right
00:39:37 Or you can use the sort of vi purplely tones, which actually works better than the blue. And that's kind of how you, how I see it with the, with the colour pencil. Yeah. I try and make things really simple. But I saw the, the colour mastery that you've got, I think you've got waitlist for it a minute. I was thinking that. Yeah, I'd really like to do that. Cause I haven't done any, I haven't done anything technical or, you know, I, I did two years at art college, which taught me nothing other than I never wanted to do art again in my life, which is very, but I, you know, I'm, I think that that sounds really interesting.
00:40:12 Yeah. And I, I'm gonna be hitting every different aspect. So there's the colour theory, there's also gonna be online colour tools that students can use to create palettes. That's also gonna be how to create a palette and also about how to look at artwork that's already out there and to look at the colour and how the colour is used. So it's really a deep dive into colour psychology as well. So hopefully I'm making it a, you know, action packed as I can to bring as much value. So I think it, it's gonna be a fun course. It's, and self and self-paced so students can always go back and reference it when they need to do something or learn about that. And I have a lot of book references as well in there. So very excited. I do hope you you check it out.
00:40:54 Oh No, I am, I'm gonna sign up. I'm sorry.
00:40:57 Thank you.
00:40:57 No, it sounds very, sounds very exciting. The other thing as well is, you know, I, I've signed up to a, a signed up to a few things. I've signed up to a TikTok about TikTok. Oh my gosh, I really wanna do TikTok and I really wanna do well and I just can't seem to find the right thing to do. Anyway, so I've signed up for this three day TikTok with this crazy looking lady. She looks fantastic. And it, and a part of it is the person, not the actual thing that they're teaching.
00:41:26 True.
00:41:26 And you think if you have a connection with the person who's teaching, if you thought, do you know what I, I really like them. I think I could spend time with them. That I think is as important as what's going on in the actual course and the instruction and everything, you know, so if you'd have been really boring today, oh,
00:41:47 I'm glad I wasn't boring. That's great.
00:41:49 But you know, I think with, with there being a connection, I'm thinking, oh yeah, I think this sounds really good.
00:41:57 Oh yeah, I think we have a connection too. And it's, it's great to get to know you and know now that we can be friends through our journey over the next year as well because it's,
00:42:05 Yeah, definitely.
00:42:05 It's hard. You know, that's the other thing we don't talk about being an artist is kind of a lonely thing. And having community, like the community you've created and is so important to connect with other artists and just talk about struggles and also inspirations and hey, what is, what have you experienced with this technique or even filming equipment.
00:42:25 Yeah.
00:42:25 You know, it, it's just really, it's really important that community aspect.
00:42:30 Definitely.
00:42:30 Sure,
00:42:31 definitely.
00:42:31 Yeah,
00:42:32 and I'm, I'm,for me, my, my art is really important, but my business has, I, I've really kind of just suddenly got this real passion for my business and what I can be doing with it. And I think I come from a very traditional background with marketing and everything. And then to all of a sudden start to learn all of these new things. You know, like how membership works and you've got pipelines and funnels and this and that and the other, and you've gotta do upsells and downsells. And I'm like, whoa. But understanding what you can do to grow your business and to make your business even better and connect to even more people, that's a really exciting thing for me. And I I'm, I'm being in James' community is absolutely wonderful. And I also managed to get onto, I dunno whether you've heard of Stu McLaren?
00:43:25 Oh Yeah, yeah,
00:43:26 Yeah, yeah. So I'm on stew's Mastermind.
00:43:28 Oh, I didn't know that. Oh wow. That's incredible.
00:43:32 I know. And I just, I, we did a 10 hour workshop last week.
00:43:36 Wow.
00:43:36 Two days, five hours.
00:43:38 Incredible.
00:43:39 You know, when you go in and you think it started at five, ended at 10, so I'd already done a full day's work and I'm thinking, oh my God, I just don't think I'm gonna, oh, I was blown away. Absolute
00:43:51 Yes.
00:43:51 Blown away.
00:43:52 Yes. It's so exciting because we can reach so many creatives and inspire them and it's so wonderful because there are people out there saying, Hey, how do I do this? How do I do this? And, you know, you have the answer, you know, and I have the answer, you know, we have completely different, different avenues for that. But it is so exciting and it is a huge learning curve. I mean, to think I was, I wrote some comment in the community and back when I had my company, I was cold calling marketing companies and going out and giving presentations at Fortune 500 companies. And that, I mean, now that I look at it, it sounds crazy. That should seem a lot harder than, than being online. But there's so many different pieces to putting it together to help serve our communities and it's a, it's a learning curve for sure.
00:44:36 Yeah. Yeah. Do you find it, do you find it is harder to, to sort of sell yourself as an artist or, or be an artist? I, I sometimes find it, it's quite, you've almost got to remove yourself from the art because the art is so personal and it's so, you pour absolutely every single ounce of your being into the pieces that you do, whatever it is that you do. Whether it's a two minute sketch or whether it's a 200 hour, you know, you are, that is part of you. And I found that removing myself, becoming a little bit, sort of, not colder, but just removed from it
00:45:12 Yes.
00:45:12 Makes it much easier to deal with clients to kind of deal, you know, deal with students to, you know, to sell the original stuff and actually to put a, a higher price on it.
00:45:23 Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think the way I've looked at it is I create a piece, I put all my creativity into it, and then it's, it's, it's kind of born, I've given birth to this piece and now I'm offering it to the world at a price that I think, you know, is commiserate with the amount of effort I put into it. And it's, it's kind of out there. There's my baby out there floating and if somebody wants to buy it and feel compelled to purchase it, that's great. But I've tried to remove myself. But same thing with Instagram. You know, I'm gonna put it out there and if people want to engage with it, great. But I don't wanna get sucked into the kind of worry about, is anyone gonna like it or anything. I had to get over that early on and just love what I do and then put it out there and kind of send it off into the universe. And it's doing that really helped. So for instance, I, I, last year I sent, sold a couple paintings to a friend of a friend and she had this big house and my friend kept saying, oh, you know, it's gonna be in her small second home. I said, okay, what, you know, I didn't, I didn't care because I had done what I wanted to do creatively. And then the purchase happened. I saw her at dinner the other night and she says, oh no, she moved the paintings into her main house, right front and center. And it felt so good. And it was so unexpected because I had removed any expectation or any thought about what that was or how she was consuming it, or I just, you know, I packaged it beautifully and I wrote her a thank you note and then it went off into the world and there it went, but, so I think it's, it, it takes practice to be able to do that. And it's taken me a long time to, and, and it still happens, but it's taken me a long time to just love what I do and then send it off.
00:47:07 Yeah.
00:47:07 And a lot of things I don't, I don't post on Instagram are a lot of things. I don't sell some more of the figurative work and portraits. I keep those to myself kind of as my own practice. So it's a challenge, it's a growth, you know, everything's about growth. Right.
00:47:24 No, definitely. Definitely. How do you, what's your strategy then for, you know, how everybody seems to compare themselves with everybody else? This is something that I, I feel I don't, but then every now and again I do and it kind of just hits you in the face and it's just like, whoa, hang on a second. What's happening here? And, and they say, you know, comparison is just the the worst thing you can do as an artist.
00:47:51 Yes.
00:47:51 Cause everybody's on a, a, you know, a different point in their journey. But, you know, I'm, I'm guessing that's something that you share with your students as well. What's your sort of thinking along that? About comparing?
00:48:07 Yeah, comparing is, is just the evil twin of, of creative expression. I mean, it just, it it is a dangerous road to go down. And I, I had a student the other day who said, oh, I'm, everyone's so much farther along than I am and it's just gonna take forever. And I just, she was just going kind of down this spiral of, of negative thinking. And I said, you know what? There will always be somebody who's farther there along than you. It's just the nature of the beast is just gonna happen. And there's always gonna be tons of people who are way far behind you. And it's not a race and it's not a comparison. We're all on our own journey. And unfortunately that's what happens when you look at Instagram a lot. I mean, you just see the polished pictures, you don't see all the hard work behind it. And I, I just try to stay in your lane as much as possible and remember that time passes anyway, so I, I get in, sometimes I get into the mode with Instagram, I'm like, oh, well that's all over. You can never grow on Instagram cuz I find it really hard. I haven't spent a lot of time on there. And then somebody proves me wrong and shows somebody who grew a a hundred thousand followers in 18 months. I just saw somebody like that. So trying to shut down the negative thoughts and remember that time passes anyway. And it's, what are you gonna do with that time? Are you gonna spend that hour a day every day and over five years you look back and go, wow, look what I created. Or are you gonna waste it on the talk in your head? And it's hard to do, but you just have to shut that, that noise out and keep on going is what I usually say.
00:49:38 Yeah. Yeah. And it's usually, well you never know, do you? But you know, people go on keep keep on and on and then go, do you know what? I've just had enough. You don't know when it's gonna go. Boom.
00:49:49 That's exactly right. And if you look at his, there's a lot of studies about this that right before someone has the big break or you get that goal achieved, that's when people quit. It's right before it happens. And it's usually the universe testing you. It, it's the weirdest thing. It's like all of a sudden these formal things come up and you're like, well, I have to quit. This is just not gonna work. And then you just wait, you keep persisting and it happens. Yeah. And I've had that experience many times and I think it's so true in art as well. Very true.
00:50:22 Definitely.
00:50:23 And then I also say, get help. You know, if you, if you wanna have a business around art, get some help with it if it's not, not your strength. Right?
00:50:32 Yeah, yeah. Now, so this is, this is something that I find a lot of artists are very reluctant to do. And whether it's a a I mean, I I don't think it's a, I don't think cost should come into it because actually if you are more productive as an artist, you're gonna earn more money. So it doesn't matter.
00:50:49 Exactly.
00:50:49 Pay somebody to do something. I constantly see artists, one of my favourite artists does this, and I talk to him on the podcast about it as well. He, he does a calendar every year and he, and he sells a colossal amount of these calendars and he packages them all himself.
00:51:06 Oh my goodness.
00:51:07 And I'm like, and it's like, yeah, take, take, you know, like, and I'm like, oh my, oh my goodness. But, but I, I mean, I get it, you know, he wants to make sure that everything's absolutely perfect. But, you know, for me, I, that's why I don't really do prints. Well, I did, I did prints at one point and I did drop shipping. So I, somebody else did all of the packaging for me. And it's one of the reasons why I haven't got into merchandise or anything just yet, because I need to find a fulfillment company to do it. I do not want to be sitting packaging stuff up. It is a total and utter waste of my time. And James Wedmore, he, he talks about this brilliantly about putting, giving yourself an hourly rate.
00:51:50 Oh yeah, I just did that actually.
00:51:52 Oh my goodness. Just, just, just brilliant to, to give yourself an hourly rate. So say for instance, I'm gonna charge myself out 250 pounds an hour, whether that's, you know, I may, I may not, whatever is me sitting for a whole day packaging a load of prints worth all of that, all of that money. No, because
00:52:16 Exactly.
00:52:17 I Could be teaching or I could be drawing, or I could be doing what I'm really good at. And, and I think I, I think that's one of the reasons why I've succeeded in my business is that I haven't been scared of delegating stuff.
00:52:30 Absolutely. Absolutely. Cuz you couldn't have grown the way you've grown without having that support.
00:52:36 No,
00:52:36 for sure. For sure. Yeah. And that is, that is such a brilliant exercise. I did that actually because I, there was one Friday and I could feel myself going into that workaholic pattern again that I experienced years ago with my business. And I said, I can't do this again. I just can't. And so I stopped everything and I did that spreadsheet and I signed the hourly rate to the tasks and I've been, I got two VAs now I have, I brought my daughter who's interviewing for jobs right now, she graduated from college and brought her home and I said, okay, we're doing intensive work and these are all the things I need help with. And I just, it just is so important because especially again, if we weren't gonna be creative and we're gonna get into that flow of creativity and do the hard work of being an artist, you have to have the space for that in, in your day. And it being exhausted is not conducive to that.
00:53:25 No, no, definitely not. And it's almost like there's a, I, I don't know. I don't know whether I, I think it's a mindset thing. I definitely think it's a mindset thing that people, they, they want to keep control of something and I completely get that. But also, you know, there's no medal at the end of it. That is, you know, I've, you know, I've succeeded in my business. I've done everything. I've, I've every single little bit I've done myself, which is, is great. But there's a ceiling, you know, you're gonna Get
00:53:54 Exactly.
00:53:55 You can't fit anything else in the day. I mean, I have two full-time employees now.
00:54:01 Wow.
00:54:01 Which is a absolutely brilliant, you know, and they work on my marketing, the marketing side of stuff. Marketing is e write an email copy, you know, creating blog posts from, I create the content and they then kind of repurpose it and everything. And that has allowed me to do what I do best. And that is teaching, that is, you know, growing, growing my knowledge on business, you know, being able to Actually, You know, participate in stuff with my increase, my, my art, all of that sort of stuff. It's enabled me to do that. And I, there's no way, there's no way I could have done what I'm doing now without help.
00:54:43 Absolutely. Absolutely. So important. And, and if artists feel also that they don't understand business or don't, it's scary to them getting into some sort of, you know, getting help just on the mindset as well, just about what they need to do to shift. But yeah, you're absolutely right and you're, I know Bonny, you're gonna need more help too,mcuz you I see big things, even bigger things for you, so, oh, I, I see, I see more employees and
00:55:12 I'm gonna, I'm taking over the world.
00:55:14 You are, you are.
00:55:15 I'm really, I'm really not. I know some people think I am, but I'm really not. I just, I I'm just really excited about everything, you know, I like to think that I'm also giving back to the community. So, you know, the, the, the Amy and Lucy who, who I employ, they both live locally to me. Oh, is Amy's Amy's first job. So she's fresh out of university, you know, couldn't get a break. Nobody give her a job. Cause she didn't have the experience. So I was like, come on in. And she's fabulous, she's wonderful, Lucy's brilliant, really, really smart girl. And I, and I've got a great team around me and they're, and they're brilliant. They're absolutely brilliant.
00:55:54 Ah,
00:55:55 it's, it's, that's a really lovely thing to have, to think that you are giving back to, you know, the community and, and also growing the business means that I can give more to the charity that I support, which is absolutely amazing. I'm gonna be doing more for that this year as well. And it's a legacy for my children.
00:56:15 Absolutely. Absolutely. That's incredible. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing what you've done. Really amazing. You inspire me, you really do.
00:56:26 Well who, who who'd have thought me sitting in my messy little studio with my dogs.
00:56:31 But see, it was because you came to your practice every day with the intention I did of improving. It's that deep work concept. You actually did that. So Yeah, you put in the work and it paid off.
00:56:44 Yeah, no, no. You're, you know, you're, you're absolutely right. And it's, and it's, and like you say, you know, whether it's four hours a day or quarter of an hour a day, it will make a difference.
00:56:54 Absolutely
00:56:55 Amazing. Absolutely amazing. But I can't believe we've been talking for nearly an hour.
00:56:59 I can't either.I cannot either,
00:57:01 Well you need to come, come over to the UK and we'll just sit and chat with a cup of tea.
00:57:06 I, I'm gonna make that on my wishlist. I'm going to man, manifest that into reality. And yes, we'll talk all things art and tea.
00:57:14 Definitely, definitely not quite as warm as California, unfortunately. Yorkshire, Yorkshire's lovely. And actually we do get quite a lot of sunshine, but it's never overly warm. Well, I'm, I've been to England a long time ago and it was probably the coldest I've ever been, so Yeah. So I can handle it though.
00:57:34 Oh gosh. So, oh, brilliant. Well, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna get onto your wait list for your Colour Mastery course. I'm quite excited about that.
00:57:43 Oh, great.
00:57:43 And yeah. Yeah. And I'd love to catch up again over, over Messenger and whatever and, and keep in touch, you know, because I think it is just so nice to have somebody who is not just other artists, but has the, that business side of stuff as well.
00:57:57 Absolutely. I would love to do that. I think we could be Yeah, great kind of accountability partners or maybe even not accountability, just even just checking in with each other. I think that would be fantastic.
00:58:10 Yeah. Fantastic. Awesome, Awesome. Oh gosh, I'm very excited about this.
00:58:14 Me too. It's been so great chatting with you
00:58:16 For Your time.
00:58:17 Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.
00:58:20 Oh gosh, my absolute pleasure. And yeah, we'll catch up, catch up offline. That'll be really nice.
00:58:25 Sounds great. All right.
00:58:26 Amazing
00:58:27 take. Alright, take care. Thank you, Bonny.
00:58:29 Bye-bye.
00:58:30 Bye. Okay, bye.
00:58:30 I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my, It's A Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show or sharing it on social media with those you know, who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my community's experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community. And to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet, please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the Coloured pencil world by following me on my socials @BonnySnowdonAcademy or by getting on my list at Bonnysnowdonacademy.com. And remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time,
