Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex-corporate person and mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision, and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curve balls, waves of self-doubt, and so many lessons learned. And you'll see Ignite my thriving online coloured pencils artist community, a community that changes members' lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs,
all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me. It used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the, it's a Bonny old life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my community's experience, and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal,
professional, and membership community and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate coloured pencil artist or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work and a joyful life you love, you are in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking.
I felt really honored to be speaking to my next guest. She's someone I admire and continue to admire for her authenticity and how she fits her home life around her business. Her love of what she does comes through in everything and she's not afraid to speak up about things and do things slightly differently. We talk about all sorts of different things in our chat, but I think what comes across the most is her total passion for wildlife and the legacy that she wants to create that is really special. I'm absolutely delighted to introduce you to Carla Grace.
Hello.
Hi.
God, I'm so excited. I can't tell you. Oh gosh. Well just thank you so much for, for joining me. You know it, it's so, so nice to to speak to you. Having been a, a huge fan of yours for so long. Is it quite late for you in the evening?
It's not too late, so it's only about seven 30 in the evening.
Oh, right. Oh, that's not too bad.
Yeah, not too bad. So the kids have just gone down, like Emily nodded off about 10 minutes ago. A bit. I'm a bit flushed cuz I was rushing to get her into bed and the husband put Will to bed so everyone's happy.
Oh, that's good. Are they quite good? Are they quite good at at going to bed usually?
Well, Emily is, Will is really good. Will is a bit. Is he your, he's your youngest? He is, yes. Yeah. Oh gosh, yeah, he's two now. So, terrible twos or, or getting mixed, say terrible.
He's learning. He's a bit more independent than he used to be, so we'll see how we go. But I think he's just totally different personality to Emily. Yeah. Put the screen there. Alright. I think I'm set up enough. Oh fab. It's amazing, isn't it? You know, when you have children and you, you have your first child,
I dunno whether you were the same, but you have your first child and you just, and it changes your life so utterly and completely. Even though you, you know, you're like, no, it's not gonna change my mind and my life and everything's gonna be the same. And it's just like, oh my goodness, you've got this, this extra being that you have to sort of,
you know, do everything for. And then when the second one comes along I was like, oh, this is easy. Cause it's been, that's nice. My second one was so much harder than my first one cause he, so she had no, she had no issues. She was regular sleeping pattern, all that sort of stuff. He, like,
as soon as his teeth started to come through, he was just ear infection. After ear infections. I had had grommets and his adenoids done and he just, he basically didn't sleep for the first 18 months, so. Oh no, he's better now though. Yeah. So now it's good. So how did you cope with that? Cause obviously you're,
you know, you're a working, a working mom, you know, how did you manage to get your art in when You were with Emily? Thankfully I was able to just keep working. Like she was great. I could have her in the studio with me and she would sleep regularly and she would sleep all through through the night, wake up for feeds and stuff.
But with Will, I had to stop working. I had to go on leave. So from about, I think he was maybe three months old, I was like, oh he's really great. I could go back to work. But I started working again and then got to four months old and he started getting teeth and it just all, I just,
I tried for two months and I was so sleep deprived that I had to, first I tried scaling back everything and then I just had to go on leave and I think I went on leave for like two months and then we started his antibiotics and his eardrops and the e n t specialty stuff and it took about a year. Yeah. I could only really work on a very limited capacity.
And he started going to daycare. I think he was about five or six months, like just for one or two days during the week just to give myself a break. Yeah. And to try and get some so I could work like maybe two, two or three days a week till he was about 10 months old or so. And then I think we decided he could go in full-time cuz he just loved it.
Yeah. Very social child. So once he started daycare full-time, then I could get back into the, get back into the studio. But without that I just had to Yeah. And of course it's not, you know, when you're a full-time artist, it's not just the love of of, of painting, you know? Yeah. That, that you'll miss.
But it's, that is the income as well. Exactly. Yeah. And now, so my husband has joined Carla Grace Art, so I now employ my husband. So now I'm the only income and I'm trying to earn the income for two people. So yeah, it's, it's stressful and it's a big responsibility. I never imagined, so I was never raised to be the business income earner.
I was raised to be that servant, heart, mother, wife, the perfect housekeeper kind of a thing. And when I left home, I just grew going to university and stuff. I just figured out that this wasn't me. Like I just, I'm not that person. Even in my relationships I like, I just, I was a little bit more independent than how I was raised to be.
And so yeah, this is, it feels good. It feels right. We're a good team and so far so good. He's really great at like setting things up. So like he's taking on all those projects that I've wanted to do like a, a 360 degree, like, you know, those virtual experiences Yeah. Of the studio. Cuz everyone has been asking me like what brushes,
what medium, what projector, what easel, like, you know, all the stuff that I use. I was like, yeah, well if we could do one of those like virtual like tours of the studio where they click on a cupboard and they can go through all the items in the cupboard and find where I got them and why I like them or why I don't recommend them,
that would be awesome. He's like, yeah, this is a great idea. I know someone who can help with that. So he's like taking over projects that are just like, don't make sense for me to do. Yes. Cause it would take so long. So it's working well cuz he is doing all the other stuff, not the art stuff.
I, I find that a lot of artists do try and do everything all themselves. Sometimes it's, it's it because of its, you know, necessity. You, you literally have to be, you have to do, you have to do that because you can't afford help or whatever. But then I do find that there are lots of people who really can't relinquish that control and they,
you know, and, and a lot the time, yeah, they have to do it all. But a lot of the time Matt then stops from, from doing the stuff that they're really good at. Yeah. Have You found it sort of quite easy then to almost delegate some of the stuff? Yeah. So easy. Like, it's just like,
I just, I think about like, cuz I, I'm like an I'm, I tend to overthink. We're not overthink. I'm very detail orientated. So I think about a project, but in every sense of the project, I don't, I don't just make the plan and then go say to someone, make that happen. Like, I think of every stage and that's what I'm thinking about all day,
every day. So like, there's this mental, it's like a sap on my brain because I'm planning it. I'm making up all these great ideas and how it'll happen and I know exactly how I wanna do a project, but then I just, I can't do it cause I just don't have the time. That's not, that's not what I should be doing.
Like I could do it. And in the past I've taught myself to do everything that I needed to because I didn't have anyone else. Hmm. And so now I just say, Hey, this is my idea bababababa. And then he takes it and he runs with it. So it's like a, a weight has been taken off my shoulders, my mind,
my mental capacity. Like, there's just so much less clutter in my head. And he's only really been on the team of one for like a month now where he is actually been doing stuff for me. So like he's doing a lot of the background things that needed to be fixed cuz my, my Facebook page got hacked and stolen, so I lost over 200,000 followers.
And so now we are having to look at the background system processes like email marketing and like newsletters and things that I didn't necessar necessarily have to pursue because I had the avenue of a really solid social media platform to keep everyone informed. So he's taken over that side of things as well. Except now whenever I send an email out, I get some messages on social,
on Instagram being like, is this really you? Or is someone hacked your email? You know, it's so, it is so hard, isn't it? And, and I think people are are, are rightly, incredibly cautious, you know, when they get, when they get well on social media and also on, but email marketing has become more and more and more important over these few years because of the fact that,
you know, as much as we have that two step authentication and everything like that on our social media, it is so easy for somebody to hack in. Absolutely. And that's how they didn't get through my two-factor au authentication or anything. They got through what's called a backdoor link. So like it support and stuff have access to this like backdoor link to the admin of Facebook meta ad accounts,
especially for verified accounts. And that's how they did it. They, so it was like a podcast, like what we're doing, which is what I do, I do podcasts with, with other creative groups. And so it was, it was on that format and through the call they got me to link to their event and that's how they got in.
So. Oh gosh. Yeah. Frustrating. But, but I mean, I, I always think these things, you know, they happen for a reason and, and clearly Yeah. Setting up the email marketing. I mean, you know, I, I do a, I do a lot of email marketing. I have a newsletter that goes out every week and actually it's been,
it's been brilliant for me to be able to connect With People and it's mine and it belongs to me. And meta can't come along and, you know, say no, you're not allowed to do that. And yeah, you've gotta you've gotta have good messaging for it to, to, to actually drop in somebody's Yeah. Email thing. But it's been a,
it is been quite a big learning curve for me and my development, you know, as a business owner. So it's, it's probably a, it's not a good thing, but good Outcome from it. What would you say would be the most important sort of like, elements to having a successful, like email response? Like the way people respond to your emails?
What would be like, I don't know, one or two features that you would say would be, So I think having, having good messaging. Also making sure that where your email comes from is a, is a sort of like a, a verified account. So it's not yeah. It's not some sort of random email, you know. Yeah. I think regularity is really key.
And just making sure that, you know, whatever your title is, it's something that's relevant. Yeah. You know, I think I, I mean I get you are probably the same. I, I kind of sign up to all sorts of emails and different bits and pieces and some of the, the, the, the headings that come through. I'm like,
I'm not opening that. Yeah. You Know, so I think, I think being, and, and once you get people understanding that you are, you are sending stuff out on a regular basis and then tag that into your Yeah. Your social media as well, so that people know that, that there's a newsletter coming and what have you. It's really nice because again,
you can send stuff that you wouldn't necessarily put on social media. It's more for your, you know, for the people who want to kind of join you on your, on your email. And there's, there's all sorts of things that you can do, you know, in there. But I think yeah, the messaging is really key. Yeah. Yeah.
Having said Right. So it doesn't sound Yeah. Or, or click. And the other thing as well, which I'm sure your husband will be doing is, is really keeping an eye on the, on the click rate and the open rates. You know, you'll look at the open rates and the click rate and you probably go, oh my goodness.
You know, no, nobody's opening anything. But actually the standards, the, the industry standard for open and click rates is really low. Yeah. Right. You know, so if you're getting 20% open rates and up, that's really, that's really good. You know, so it, it's, it's kind of just kind of understanding those sorts of things as well.
But Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it, you know, having that, that email list, that marketing list is, is really key. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially Thank you. That's very helpful. Yeah. Well I've learned all of this stuff. I was like, I always thought I was good at marketing. Yeah, yeah.
I was like, oh yeah, I'm good at marketing. And then all of a sudden I'm, I'm thrown into the sort of depths of email marketing. I like the membership and it's like, I, I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah. It's a lot to take on. So I'm happy not to have that Yeah. load on my mind at the moment,
which is good. Yeah, yeah. I'm guessing you, do you work on a couple of projects at the same time? Or do you just sort of have one go? Cause you've got a in between, don't you?
I tend to prefer working on one project at a time. I like to see something from start to finish. The issue with just, I'm working on one really large piece at the moment, which is a little bit more experimental. Something that I don't usually do. It takes a really long time to finish. So every day content is same, same, same, same. So once a week or so I'll try and do like a little painting challenge. Yeah. Which, Yeah, so like a little acrylic mini portrait,
which is just a standard wildlife portrait. And that like, that's great. But like, I also, I struggle stopping the other projects, so I have to have two pallets, one for my big projects and then one for the in between stuff. But then that little piece, I'll start and I'll finish before I go back to doing that big piece.
So unfortunately, yeah, I, I probably could start working on more things at a time. I just, I struggle with the, I think the mess and the incompleteness in the studio
For me, I, I tend to work on one, one piece at a time. Mine's obviously, it, it, it's quicker than yours obviously. Cause it's a dry medium.
My whole headspace is in that one piece. And I struggle, if I take something off my drawing board, I struggle then to put it back on again. Cause my headspace is gone.
Goes to another thing. Yeah. I think, I think, I don't, I don't think I really get into a headspace, like for a specific piece. I am more motivated for like,
the overall concept of a series or a collection. And then the individual piece is based off of that original vision. And then I can happily put a piece down and then come back to it later because I don't really rely on being inspired for a certain piece. So I've managed to find a way to work outside of inspiration because I think if I was waiting on inspiration to create my artwork,
I would never create anything like sleep deprivation. And I have had like extreme iron deficiency for the past three years. Like I just, motivation is very low for me. Like, I just don't have energy. And so my internal motivation and discipline is what pushes me every day because I love my job and I love what I do. So if I don't do it,
like nothing's gonna happen. And that to me is enough to sit down at the easel every day and do what I do. And when I start painting, I love it. Like I'm, I get into the mode, but it could be the same with any piece. It's not like I'm more like, I'm more motivated to do the pieces that are more fresh.
Obviously coming back to an old one isn't great, but I can do it. Like, it's not, yeah. It has to be done, so I'll do it. Kinda.
So when You talk about you, the, the, the motivation, you know, not necessarily being in in, I mean obviously you're inspired, but you know, what's your thought process when you are coming to do like a new collection or a new piece or something like that? You've got two amazing pieces up behind you. You know, the horses where you've got the scales and everything in there. It is just like, yeah, when I was watching you creating it, I was like, you know, what was it that made you sort of think about, oh, I'm gonna incorporate these two things. Is it just something that comes to you or,
I wanted to push myself. I love the pressure of working on something new and challenging where I think I can't do it than I wanna do it. Because that to me is more interesting than the actual joy of creating it. Now I say that carefully because the joy of creating it for me is the challenge of the piece. And I love wildlife and I love being able to do something different and being able to paint something real that isn't actually real.
So like incorporating the different elements into the skin. Like that one was a very experimental piece. And I've been building up to doing something like that for the past like three or four years. And that challenge just drives me like the complexity and not being able to figure out how to do it exactly. And then somehow being able like adjust that. I am captivated by that.
And like currently I'm working on, so that flamingo piece that you see, there was like a little study and I'm doing a larger piece where I created like four or five layers of flamingos in one piece and created a cohesive image. Like it's huge. It's like 1.3 meters wide by 1.1 or something like that. Like it's a huge painting and it's got about 22 birds in it.
And they look like they're ballerina dancers warming up for a show kind of a thing. Like the, there's something more fluid and graceful about it than just a standard wildlife image. Like, I want to go further than what you can see in the photo. Because that I think is what wildlife art is missing. Like just that extra level of artistic creation that makes it,
it's still photorealistic because that's the style I love, but it's more than that. And that's been the challenge that I've had is being able to do that on a technical basis. Like as an artist myself, being actually physically able to do that and then actually being able to do it, like actually doing it. That's, that's where I get the kick.
That's where I'm really motivated. Obviously you work from photos. I know in some of your series you've sort of, whether you've manipulated them digitally or whether you've just sort of brought different photos together and had an idea and everything. Do you take your own photos? Do you use other photographers photos? Do you have an idea in your mind about what your photo needs to look like and then you go searching for it?
How does that, how does that process work? It all starts with the idea in my head. And then I actively search for references online. I have a whole collection of my own photographs that I've taken. If I have access to the animals that I want to paint for that particular idea, then I will go take photos of them. If I don't have access,
like there are no wolves or bears around here in South Australia, so I don't, I can't really go out and get, so i'll, I'll approach photographers online. A lot of the times my ideas require such a mashup of photographs that the finished image that I put together looks nothing like any photographer's actual work. So in that instance, it's like a whole new image.
It's like a Frankenstein of animal parts to create a believable animal like the, the chimp that I painted a few years ago. There's no reference photo to point to like one reference photo to say this was taken by that photographer because yeah, that animal doesn't exist. So in that instance, I'm creating my own reference and if there was a part of the painting that is very recognizable as a certain photographer's image,
then I will get their permission to include their photograph. If it's one or two that it looks like, then I will partner up with the photographer and work that way. Yeah. And, and, and so do you sort of spend, have a, a period of time where you are, you are, you are, you are sort of constantly searching for the photos?
Or is it just almost like a, an organic thing, you know, you'll sit and have a cup of tea and look through some photos and then do a bit of this or, or is it like, right, this is my time for, you know, finding the whatever inspiration I've had and pooling all of those photos together. Is that kind of part of that, that whole process? Or is it just sort of It's a bit of everything.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a bit of everything. Usually the start of the composition, like where I'm really trying to get the idea into a physical form on the iPad, I will sit down and that's what I'm doing so that I can complete the vision and see whether or not it's an idea I need to pursue or not.
So the larger flamingo work that I'm working on at the moment, it took me about six weeks to put together. So that's obviously not six weeks of nonstop work on that. It's put the composition together and then put it down and come back to it later to see it with fresh eyes. And I think I redid the composition about 13 times before I landed on one that I couldn't make better in any way.
And so a lot of the times like the, the horse with the scales and the fur, that I almost couldn't do a draft on the iPad because I couldn't get the right fur with the right shadow. Like I had to do it physically on the painting to make it come together. Yes. So the reference searching for that was sort of futile because I didn't end up putting anything together really on the iPad.
I sort of found individual images as I went along and then did it as I as I went. So each piece is different and comes together in its own way. It's like they have their own personality from the start.
Amazing. It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. You know, ob obviously this is your sole source of income and your, your paintings I imagine go for, you know, a a huge amount, which is amazing. I know you did the, the cheetah where, where you were, you know, it went for the, the the charity auction thing, which was incredible. Just looking at, at, you know, drawing live and then raising all of that money. It just absolutely amazing. You teach as well.
I do.
Is that, is is the teaching side of stuff? Cause I know you have tutorials and everything like that available, I don't know whether you do workshops and stuff, but is that very much part of your, I guess, recurring revenue? Is that, is that part of, of what sort of helps you to create your income so that you've got, cause when when you're paint, when you know when you're painting Yeah, it, it's, it's obviously gonna, you know, it's gonna make a lot of money, but then you've got that period of time where, you know, it's not like you're bashing out piece every week.
No, no. Gosh, I wish I could how yeah, that would be ideal. But the teaching part of financial residual income for, for getting over the, the bottom line. But it's also part of a larger vision that I have for Carla Grace Art. I am self-taught, like completely from start to finish. And when I was at the start of like, I knew I wanted to be a realistic wildlife painter and I would search for anything to teach my,
like, to figure out like I struggled with fur, how, how do other artists do fur? And there was just nothing. There was absolutely nothing that was instructive, that was practical that didn't have any, like, it was, it was boring. It was, it was stale to watch. It was like trying to pull out teeth kind of thing to just make it work.
And I couldn't find the right courses or the course was, I just wanted that one feature so that I could take the knowledge from just that one element, like how to paint fur and use it across the board. So I decided that I would create a tutorial, like my first one was how to paint fur because that was like, I basically, I'm creating the tutorials that I wish that I had when I was trying to figure it out.
But the other side of my entire tutorial platform and the coaching and the transparency and the amount of information that I share on my social media pages, wildlife art doesn't really feature in sort of the art history timeline. Like when you study art history at school or uni, it's not, you barely ever hear wildlife mentioned. And I want to change that cuz I think wildlife is associated with sort of like home decor art more than like a art movement.
And I think that comes down to perhaps the level of quality of the painting as a, as a broad sort of spectrum stereotype or just the way artists just paint wildlife, like directly, like the biggest criticism I hear about wildlife, realistic wildlife painting is why not just take a photo? So I want to make a difference in sort of the timeline of history,
like over this course of my career. Like this is long-term thinking and bring wildlife back on the scene. Like somehow make it. So that's why I wanna push beyond the photograph and make it more than what you could just take a photograph of. The only thing is I can't do that as just a single artist. So that's why I am sharing as much of my knowledge as I can because I want other wildlife artists to be able to pick up their game as well and sort of push their wildlife art a bit further while still being like incredibly beautiful work to look at.
So like, not weird, not weird wildlife art, still beautiful, but more than what you can get in a photograph. So that's sort of where it's all heading for me. That's what, that's my dream really. It's to see wildlife become a serious topic in the art history timeline.
Oh, what, well that's an, an incredible thing to be working towards. And, and, and I'm guessing, you know, you with, with all of your followers and I know that there are other wildlife, I mean I, I did, I have drawn some wildlife, but it's not, I've, I've kind of come from that pet portrait thing, so that's the, you know, the majority of stuff. But, you know, I do follow quite a few wildlife artists. There's a, an artist who I had the pleasure of working with a couple of years ago and we did a, I did a session in London and it was, it was a, a strategy session that we were doing that I was running and we were talking about where do they want to be and she was very much around,
you know, she wanted to be supporting wildlife and she wanted again to be kind of pushing her work. And I've seen just recently that she has, she's really starting to push her work and everything. I'm, I'm positive she follows you. She's called Claire Hefron and she's been doing some amazing, amazing work using, kind of becoming a little bit looser with her work,
but really looking at something that again, you wouldn't necessarily get in a photograph. And it's, it, it is wonderful to see people being able to get inspiration from other artists. An artist not being so worried that people might, oh my goodness, they're gonna copy my idea or I'm gonna keep this technique serious, you know, secret or anything. Yeah.
Because no matter what you put out and no matter what you help people with and share your techniques, nobody's ever going to be you.
Exactly. It takes, there's, there's a certain amount of individuality, like no matter how many people learn how they paint, how I paint fur, they're not still, they're still not gonna be able to paint fur the way I paint fur,
just the same as my handwriting is gonna be different to their handwriting kind of a thing. So, and there's also individual marketing and there's individual capacity as well. So not everyone's gonna want to become ultra collectible and expensive. Cuz the more expensive the art becomes, the more pressure there is on the art. So like there's at every level there's a sacrifice to make as an artist.
So the higher up the more sacrifices you have to make sort of as an artist in terms of so many different things. Yeah. Not everyone has the same ambition. I used to work at an art store part-time before I became full-time artist. And I always remember this artist coming in, she was at, at Art Uni, she was doing like big expressive abstract acrylic paintings and she had bought the wrong paint or something and it completely threw her painting off.
And she said to me, she says, I don't wanna ever paint when I'm not enjoying it. And I looked at my colleague and I was like, well that's one less artist to compete, to compete with because when you're doing art full time, you're not gonna love doing it every day because every day it's a job. So like I always remember that there are different levels of capacity in artists and you know what,
if someone is able to make a huge success out of their career because of the information and the techniques and the advice that they get from me, I like the honour, like if I'm an artist that they think about when they look back on their career and like how it started for them, if they think Carla Grace really helped make this possible for me,
like I just, it's all worth it. Like I ju like I'm get goosebumps like that. It just, for me to be able to be part of another artist's career, there is no honour greater honestly to be able to lift the glass ceiling off of another person's limitations. Just to me that just, that's wonderful.
Yeah, Definitely. You know, it really is. It really is. And to see, I'm sure you see, you know, people who have taken your courses and everything and you see them getting better and better or they've kind been struggling with something and then it's like, oh, I, I've got it now that they've had that, you know, light bulb. I think as a,
as a, as a teacher, as somebody who teaches to see your students progress and go on to, you know, have a career or be published or, you know, take on their first commission or, you know, it's ab is is absolutely fantastic. It, it's the most wonderful thing. Yeah.
It's, it's incredible. So I can't imagine, like for me, like now when I see an artist, they're incredibly talented, but they don't share anything. Like they, they don't share anything for me, I lose a little bit of respect for that artist. Like I get that it's intellectual property and you work really hard to establish something that is unique to you and then to just give it away.
Like that feels, that's hard. Like that is really hard because it, it takes a lot of hard work to earn your degree of knowledge and your degree of technical ability. And then to just hand it over to someone else on a platter who's then just gonna turn around and say, well give me more. Yes. You know, it's devastating. Like it's,
there's, yeah. Anyway, it's just, I know, so I get it. I absolutely get it. But there's also just so much more to it. I don't know, for me I think it's a different personality as well, so Yeah. To their own. Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is how I got into teaching because my natural way of sharing is to get really excited about what I'm doing,
you know, and I, I mean I started drawing in 2016 and I just started sharing on, on Facebook and it was just like, oh my goodness, I've, I've put these two colours together or I've used this new surface and I've found that this works really well. And you know, yes, you, you do get stuff from other people,
particularly if you're on social media and you know, I'm self-taught, but I, I'm, there's definitely that osmosis from other artists that you kind of ask questions about and they're, and they're generous with their knowledge. But for me, almost every single piece of content like put to social media, I'm sharing something. Yeah. Like I've done this or I've done that.
And if somebody asks me a question I try and answer, you know, and people do become a little bit, you know, they just want to know more and more and more and more and more, you know, which is fine. And I completely understand that and, and I think you do have to have some, there has to be some boundaries is to say,
look, you know, yeah. You know, go and have a look one of my tutorials or whatever, you know, Or ask Google Or ask Google. Yeah. There are some things that you can Google mate and you should do that because it teaches you a level of independence. Oh gosh. I dunno. But yeah, I mean I think people just get so excited about stuff,
don't they? They just get so excited about learning bits and pieces, you know? Yeah. People are, people are funny. So with your work, you, you obviously have the, you know, people who collect your work, you are waiting for certain pieces in the wings. Do you have work in galleries? Do you have a gallery that supports you? Or is that not a route that you've gone down?
I'm happy to work with a gallery as long as I know that they can do better than what I can do. So I have never had any issues selling my work for the price that I want for my work. And galleries have never, well so far the galleries that have approached me or that I have approached have never had the same level of ambition or belief I think in the value of my work.
And so I will just wait for the perfect fit I think of a gallery. If a gallery approaches me and says I can get it for three times what you're asking, I will say Go for it. Earn your commission. That is great. No, that, that is, it's so refreshing to hear that because I think there's a, there's a lot of kudos,
you know, I think particularly in the UK about getting your work into galleries and, but I used to work in an art gallery and actually the amount of pressure that they put on individual artists is huge. Mm. You know? Yeah. And, and also not necessarily paying them, you know, the commission. Yeah. Commission for the gallery is really big.
But there is that kudos in the uk you know, I'm gonna get your, if you've got your work in a gallery, that's great, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are getting the, the most from your piece. So I love the fact that you know that your marketing is the best for your work. I think that's brilliant.
I think I'm lucky in that though. Cause I do have a very good business mind and I'm good at marketing and I'm good at creating content. I'm good at engaging. It's not something that comes easily I think to artists because there's a, there's a a degree of being able to talk yourself up for those audiences. And it's hard to do that as an artist cuz I know that a lot of artistic personalities are a little bit more close and it's not about me,
it's about the art. But when you are self represented, it's the salesmanship as well as the art, like creating the value and the entire experience. And that's quite confronting for artists to do so in that sort of context. Then using a gallery is great because they do the showmanship, they do the out, they drive the marketing, they, they do all of that.
So galleries are great. There is still so many people come to me saying, I wish I could see your work in a gallery. Like I would love to see it in a person in a gallery. And I get that. Absolutely. So we are currently putting through council the build of a studio, which I will be able to do private viewings in,
but that's still very local down where we are. So like galleries. So my experience with galleries in the past haven't been great. They've damaged artwork, I pay for shipping, I pay for framing and they want 30, 40, 50%. And they're like, but if you get anyone asking about the artwork, you send them to us. And to me I'm like,
and they're like, we, we do this together. And I'm like, hang on, you haven't done any work and then you asking me to give you 50% of the sale. So there hasn't been like big thinking gallery people in my road of my artistic journey so far. But I know that there are wonderful galleries out there that do incredible work for their artists.
They're very dedicated to marketing and selling and pursuing sales and pursuing different sales channels for their individual artists. I haven't come across one yet for my own work, but I know that they are out there and I'm not actively pursuing them cuz there's no, no pressure at the moment.
I guess as well. When you found your way, you know, and you've, with your pricing structure, when you first started painting, did you find it difficult to put a price on your work? Did you know that you needed to put a price on your work that actually, you know, represented what it was worth? Or has it that been a quite a big work in progress? I think the price of an artist's work is like a lifelong process because as the career changes and the market changes,
there's a, there's a constant adjustment to everything. And for me, when I started out, so obviously starting out my technique wasn't as good, but I was still a really great artist. I mean starting out, I'm talking, I was like 17. So someone said to me, if you're constantly grabbing a figure out of the air, it's not gonna be a sustainable model to price your work in.
So you need to come up with something that is like a logical process that if someone asks you, because people are absolutely in their right to ask for a breakdown of pricing structure. If you're not able to provide that, it's not a very, it doesn't provide a lot of confidence around what you're, what you're providing people. Cause it's a service and a product.
So when you wanna be legit, it's not just a matter of guessing and hoping for the best. So I sort of like after drawing for a few years, so I would be like a hundred bucks for a portrait when you're 17 is awesome. Like a hundred bucks when you're living at home after drawing for a weekend. That's great. But then as like a sustainable business model,
I was like, how can I actually like knowing how long it takes me to do a certain portrait? So I knew myself very well, how long it would take me to do a certain drawing in what medium and the size. So my formula when I first started out was the size of the drawing in inches square because it, it was a, a more reasonable number.
So the inches square of a drawing multiplied by the level of detail or the number of hours Plus tax and materials then whether or not they were shipping or framing. So then it would come up with a very consistent number for me to provide quotes on. And that's what I used for like the first two or three years. And then eventually it became a standard size versus price and then detail and then I became acrylic only.
So then the pricing structure became based on the size and the level of detail as well. And then there were a lot of different value elements that added to it. So it became supply and demand price structure. So as soon as I didn't need that formula to determine the price, when the market was determining the price, that's when it sort of started to escalate a little bit more.
So that then also came down to my ability as, as a business marketing agent, to then sort of price my work around supply and demand. Cuz people are always only gonna pay what they believe it's worth. They'll, they'll never really pay more than that. So it gives you a pretty good gauge to work with when that starts to happen.
That's, yeah, that, yeah, that really, really interesting to hear, you know, cause I think so many artists struggle with putting a price on their work, you know, when they're starting out and so many people have prices that are just not well, they're not sustainable at all. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And you get the worry that,
oh, you know, well so-and-so down the road is that they're only charging 50 pounds and if I charge, you know, 200 pounds, well they're never gonna come to me because they're gonna pay the 50 pounds. And, and for me that's sort of like, mm, it doesn't really work like that because your audience, who's gonna pay 200, will never pay 50, you know?
Yeah, exactly.
It's all about Your, your audience and everything. But it, it is definitely, I see so many artists who want to create that, that, you know, living from their art, but just don't have the confidence to be able to charge.
Hmm. Yeah. At the beginning when I was doing more commissions, so many people got cheap good art. So eventually like I'd give them a quote and they'd be like, no, that's too much. And I say, well, what's your budget? Let me know what you want to pay for this portrait. And they'd let me know. And I say, well this is what I can do for that amount of money.
So then I'd still get the job. But I would do it for the amount. And I'd put the, so like I would do so if someone wanted a portrait of their child, but they didn't wanna pay 250 for just a, a pencil drawing, like full detail black and white A four. They didn't wanna pay the 250. Cuz that would take me a day and I'd say,
well if you only wanna pay 150 for it, I'd just do less detail. So, and then I'd have an example of it. So I'd have like almost three stages of quoting. So the ideal, what I would prefer to do, that was usually my top tier quote if someone was not interested in doing that. So have examples of all the different range of work so you know exactly how long it's gonna take.
So then the next sort of stage down, I knew that the doing this level of detail would only take me four or five hours. So it's like just focal detail where the eyes, the nose and the mouth were really detailed and high contrast. And then the rest was all like a little bit more arty. And then people would be like, oh,
that'll be great. So then I know then I'd still get that job. So being able to be flexible, like now I don't do it because I don't have to. Yeah. And I can be more selective about my commissions, but at the start when I wanted to keep the jobs coming in so that I knew that I had a consistent income, then I would have that open conversation with people and say,
if this price doesn't work for you, I can do it at this level of detail. This is what it would look like and I can do that for you. And then usually nine outta 10 times they'd be like, yes, that's perfect. I'd love it. Yeah, yeah. Then, and then they'd tell their friends and then it just sort of like goes on from that.
But if as an artist you do an, you do a drawing or an artwork for someone and what you've been paid makes you feel ripped off, then you know it's not enough. Yeah. You just have that gut wrenching feeling. You just know that that was not enough for that artwork. So either increase your quote or decrease the amount of time that it takes you to do that artwork.
So whether it's a tweak in your technique or you provide that different scale of options for people to choose from where it's still a good artwork but just doesn't like drain you as an artist to create like, I don't know, an experiment with yourself as an artist, then you're able to sort of open up your options for income as well.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I really, yeah, some really, really good points there. I, I know I do see people sometimes, you know, offering these smaller portraits in a way I get that. But in another way I'm like, actually I'd be pushing and marketing my, the, you know, the ones that I really love to do, you know,
particularly established artists, you know, and it's like, I, I get really, I get really frustrated for artists who, who, who put sales on I, I just, oh yeah. I just get re you know, oh, discounted this weekend or you know, black Friday or whatever. Yeah. I'm like, oh my goodness, don't discount your art.
Yeah. You Get really frustrated about that. Yeah. Yeah. I understand discounting productions. So like prints or like a print run or something. Yeah. When you're talking about stock, but like, when it comes to an original painting, discounting running a sale, trying to get the sales up, I I understand the desperation behind it to try and get the sale cuz it's better,
it's just money sitting there kind of a thing. It's, it's wasted income. I don't know. Everyone's on a different journey as well. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, Yeah. It is always sad to see artists devaluing their themselves, but I also understand it. Yeah, Yeah. Like I'd rather, I'd rather hold onto an artwork rather than sell it for less than it's worth.
Yes. But at the same time I understand the need to move things on. Exactly. You know, and, and some have the capacity to be able to do that and, and others don't. And I, yeah, I, I mean the marketing side of stuff, I think an an author you were saying before, a generalized personality of an artist is some,
you know, a lot, a lot of people do not know how to market themselves and how to write content that connects with others. And you know, you, you, you do find people who copy, you know, they might copy another person's way of marketing and of course that's not sustainable, but it's a way of getting their stuff out there and creating content that's,
you know, sort of gets them moving. But it's, for me, cause I I, I kind of coach people in the, in the business space as well and it's always about being them, you know, take the word marketing out and just put me in the, not me, but them in there that that's what they're doing. They're just talking about themselves.
And if people can become a little bit more confident in talking about themselves, then you know, they, they tend to find that connection with people who are, you know, who are similar. But Yeah, it is, it's tricky, isn't it? It is. Yep. Oh dear. I wish there was a rule that just worked for everybody.
Yes. That you know, the one rule that just did all Yeah, I know. But we're all so different and we all react in such a different way and we all behave in such a different way. It's, you know, it's, yeah. It's impossible. We've all got to find our own way, haven't we? I'm not gonna keep you any longer.
You've been an absolute joy, Carla. It's been so lovely to talk to you and I'm, you know, listening to the, the sort of, the inspiration and the process and everything behind process sounds such a bog standard word doesn't it for what you do. But it's been absolutely wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much. Oh gosh, my absolute pleasure.
But just been so, so nice to chat to you. Thank you. Thanks. Oh, I hope you have a wonderful day. Oh, And I hope you have the lovely rest of your evening. Thank you. Alright, Thank you so much. Bye bye.
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my, It's A Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show or sharing it on social media with those you know, who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my community's experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community. And to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams.
If you haven't done so yet, please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the Coloured pencil world by following me on my socials @BonnySnowdonAcademy or by getting on my list at BonnySnowdonAcademy.com. And remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Until next time.
