Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex-corporate person and mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision, and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curve balls, waves of self-doubt, and so many lessons learned. And you'll see Ignite my thriving online coloured pencil artist community, a community that changes members' lives for the better,
and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me. It used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the, It's A Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence,
share mine and my community's experience, and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate Coloured pencil artist or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work and a joyful life you love, you are in the right place.
Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking.
I'm inspired by so many artists, artists who push me to develop my own work, and Antoniette is one of those artists. Her work is incredible. Not only colour pencil, but oils too, and her love of teaching shows in the work her students produce. Not only is she an incredible artist, but such a lovely person too kind, incredibly generous with her knowledge. It was such a pleasure to speak to her.
Good morning, honestly, I'm so excited to meet you. Oh, so likewise. It's so nice to finally be chatting with you. I know. You're like one of my idols. Oh, well, I could say the same thing about you.
Oh gosh. You're, you're the one that initially inspired me to get started with, you know, posting my artwork on Facebook. And I remember seeing one of your, one of your horse portraits and I, and I thought, wow, gosh, I wish I could do that. And yeah, here we're, oh my goodness. So have you,
I mean, I, when I look at your work, I, it looks like you've been drawing forever. Have you been doing art forever? Oh, I've, I've always loved to draw ever since I was little and I'm, I'm just so lucky now. I, I teach kids and I get to do it for a living, and it's, it's amazing to be able to,
to do what You love it. It really does. And I've seen, I know I've sent you because every time, every time I see the stuff that you're, that you're teaching, I'm like, oh my goodness, you could do this. You could do this and you could do this. But, but that's kind of me, me, you know,
how, how I, I, I guess how I run my business and it, that's not, I, I just see you having the most fun and enjoyment with what you're doing and creating the most incredible pieces. Just, you know, and, and getting the children and everything. It's, I I get so excited and I think I, what can I,
so I just wonder what I can show the kids this weekend and then I'll have an idea and Oh, that would be great. That would have so much fun. And it is. And I just love seeing the excitement on their faces. So you said you've always loved drawing, but I'd really love to know just everything about you because your, your work fascinates me because you're not just coloured pencil,
you are oils, you are, you've got different styles. It is just unbelievable what you do. And I'd love to know everything about you. Well, it's, it's funny how, I mean, I started, I, I just loved to draw as a child and I, I remember collecting Christmas cards and loving the illustrations on the covers. So I used to paste them in a scrapbook and copy the,
the picture that was on the card. I wish I'd have kept it, I have no idea where, where it is now, but I just love to copy these images that I loved kind of as I went on, I, I found airbrushing and I started to, I did a little airbrush course, and yes, that was great. I, I did a,
a few commercial jobs with airbrushing wool murals. I, I started to work full-time in a job that I wasn't very happy in, continued my drawing. And then I decided to go back to school and study as an adult in graphic design. And I became a, a graphic artist. And it's funny how all these things kind of, that I've learnt over the years have merged together to help me,
you know, to get me where I am now. And I loved graphic art as well, and that kind of helps me put my images together before I draw them so I can, I can design my layouts, manipulate the colours in photos. If it's not the best reference, it can be a nightmare. So I can try and manipulate it on the computer before I,
I print it out and start with my artwork. Yeah, it's funny 'cause I was a, I wouldn't say I was a graphic designer, I was a layout artist, but I was also a photo Photoshop retoucher. Oh, yes. Yeah. So, you know, my Photoshop skills are pretty good, but only sort of nineties style. Yeah, I'm the same.
There is so much to know. I'd, I'd be so scared these days. I still use the older program, but it's amazing what you can do with it, really. Oh, no. And, and how useful it is as well. And, and like you said, you know, all of these things, I'm sure you get the, the,
the, the same comments from people. Oh my goodness, you know, don't you wish you could have found this when you were, you know, 10 years younger or whatever. But actually it's all of those experiences that we have along the way that enables us to do now what, what we do. Definitely. Definitely. I, I find with my airbrushing course,
that's where I learned to transfer my images. So I use the old technique, or I colour the back of my printout, my photo reference with a gray lead. I pop that on the paper that I'm gonna be drawing on. And I kind of a trace around all of my shadows, all of my highlights, and it kind of, it deconstructs the image into shapes and then that helps me when I start to pencil it in or to paint it in.
So your, your process is more around the, the values. You're looking at the values rather than detail? Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And, and it helps to see things in shapes rather than an object, like a nose or a mouth, to try and look at it as shapes and where those colour shapes are. Yeah. And as,
as long as they're in the right place, absolutely, absolutely. Turn out the same. Yes. Yeah. Because, because of course, you know, you can have a nose that's the right shape of a nose, but then when you get your values in, and if they're not correct, then your nose could be looking completely skewed. Yes, definitely.
Yep. And you don't want that to happen in a, in a portrait. No, no, definitely. Everything has to be in the exact right place. So your process with, cause I, I've, I watched you do your colour pencil piece and you've just done the most incredible lion. in fact, I left a, I left a comment this morning wanting to know about the whiskers.
Oh yeah. Yes. But your, your process when you're doing your coloured pencil work, and then when you're doing your oils, is it, is it very much the same? It is the same. It's just the technique that's that's different. So the oils stay wet, so it's kind of like painting in bands of colour next to each other.
And once you get the hang of it, it's, it's just so beautiful to use. And you can rework areas, you can blur them, and you can kind of push the paint around. I guess my oil technique is a little bit different. 'cause I, I paint so in really thin layers, and I guess it is like the way I use a pencil,
but I would like to develop a more painterly style, more defined brush strokes. But it's, it's still a process. I mean, you never stop learning. Yes. There's just so much to know. Yeah, no, 'cause I, I d I have dabbled a little bit in oil and I, I've took some lessons with the, with Jean Pritchard,
the amazing wildlife artist. And she has a, she has a, a a lovely way of, of creating, I think there isn't really one specific way of this is how you have to do it. Everybody finds their own way. I, I almost want to just go, right, I'm just gonna not learn from anybody. I'm just gonna try and do my own thing and see what happens.
Because you can't really fail, can you, when it comes to art? No, no. There is no failing. There's no right or wrong. And that's what I love about it too. Yeah. It's great to take bits and pieces of, of different artists and, and then combine it into your own, whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever's working.
Yes. I, I like, I like looking at all different artists and seeing their techniques. You, you class yourself as, as self-taught. And it's just through, you know, so, so if you have somebody who comes to you as a complete beginner, which you will have, you know, because I know you teach children, I'm gonna kind of come onto that in a second,
but you also do sort of like the sip and paint stuff, which I think they just look amazing. 'cause people come in and they go, well, I can't draw, you know, I, I've never been able to draw. I don't have a creative bone in my body. You know, blah, blah, blah. How do you instill confidence in them and let them understand that actually they can,
what, what's kind of your, your go-to process for that sort of thing? So firstly, I guess they all do say that when they come in, especially for the sip and paste, because that's all about having fun. And I remind them it's, we, we are going to have fun. I set them up with a pre outlined canvas. I think that's kind of,
it's already setting them up to succeed because you can get hung up on not having your dimensions correct. So the outlined canvases to start with, and they're kind of colour coded as well. I stand there and I direct step by step. So everyone follows me at the same time. Once they start, they do kind of start having fun and they chat to each other and they forget about what they're doing.
They're not concentrating so much, and they just enjoy the process. And by the time they're done, they really can't believe what, what they've painted. And I think it is all about having fun in the process, just really enjoying it. Yeah, definitely. I've come across a, I've come, because I came across a comment on Facebook this week,
and I've heard it from another artist as well, that feel art should be hard, art should be hard, and we should all, you know, really work incredibly hard to be able to, you know, get any sort of semblance of art out there. And I have completely the opposite idea about art. I think art should feel freeing, should feel easy,
should feel enlightening. And I, I completely, I totally respect other people's opinions and everything, but what's, what's your sort of take on on that E Exactly the same. It should be fun. I know people do it for different reasons, but I think it's mindfulness as well. It's kind of zoning out. And I know most artists, when they are drawing or painting,
they're not really thinking about anything apart from what they're doing. And I think they're just enjoying enjoying the process. So I, I don't think it should be hard. And I don't think anyone should be hard on themselves. And like I said, there is no right or no right or wrong. It's, it's just enjoying what you're creating. I love that everybody starts off with a,
a, a blank piece of paper. Just to create something on that plain paper is just amazing. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the tools as well that we can use as artists now is just fantastic. I was taking a class yesterday and, and I was saying, oh, I think you see, I don't use the grid method.
I either freehand and measure stuff and all of that kind of stuff, or I'll, I'll use it, I'll create a digital line art and I'll project it and I'll use that, which saves copious amounts of time. But a lot of people do use the grid method to kind of sketch out their, you know, whatever. And, and I've said,
I think we'll probably do a tutorial on using the grid method. It's something that I find really alien to me. I ju I just find it really, I think because when I draw, I don't actually copy what's right in front of me. And when you're using the grid method, you're basically, you know, right. What's in that box? Okay,
we'll put that in. Which is really great for obviously getting your outline and everything. But then I, I, I can't then do that to follow the rest of the thing because I'm just like, I, I look at the image and I just go, oh, you know, I'm just gonna kind of take an idea of what this looks like.
I think as well, people very new to art don't realize that there are these tools that can be utilized. And, and I wonder if that is why people say, oh, I can't draw. Because they, they literally sit down and they try and draw something they don't know they or they don't understand the, the, the principles of drawing, you know?
So it's not just, oh, I can't draw a perfect outline of something, but it's not really about drawing a perfect outline. It's about understanding shapes and values and curves and, you know, the structure of something. That's what people don't understand. And I think they just think they have to sit there with a pencil and be able to draw something perfectly.
And it's just not how, it's just, I mean, that's never gonna, It's a difficult way to start. Yes, there are so many, there's so many ways that you can start a drawing and it's, it's, I think it's important to practice life drawing as well. There are so many ways to, you know, to pop your outline onto your,
your paper. And I think that is what deters a lot of people is if they get it wrong from the get go, it's just, yeah, no, can't do this. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So you prepare all of your students canvases before they come. Do you do that even with the, with the children that you teach? Not with the children.
Only for the sip and paints, because I want them to have fun and not worry about, you know, getting the, the image on Perfect. So I kind of set that up for them with the children. I show them my transfer technique with the graphite on the back of our printout. And some of them have been taught that already. Some of them know it and others are blown away.
Sometimes we do just do free hand drawing depending on what the image is and depending how much time we have as well. But we, we do start, we do start the transfer that way. And it's amazing how all of the students will use the same image and transfer the same outline, but everyone's work ends up being different. So they, they all have their own little style.
Yeah. You see, this is what art in any sort of genre, you know, people are either love or, or, or, or don't love, like modern art and all of that kind of stuff. Abstract stuff people get or they don't get. And it's the same with realism, isn't it? You know, it's like, oh, well you could just take a photograph and whatever.
And, and I think people don't understand. It's not, it's almost like a calling, I think for realism. It's not, it's, you don't just wake up in the morning and just go, oh, I'm, I'm going to draw. Realistically, it's something that you can't help doing. And it is not the end product that gives you the most joy.
It's the process of doing, and that's why realism artists create realism in my mind. It's that process that we absolutely love. It's the, you know, getting the values right, getting the fur to look like fur, you know, not necessarily copying a, a photograph. Exactly. And from that, ev like you were saying, everybody has their own style.
You can't not have your own style. Definitely. And, and it's, it is through the process that you develop your own little techniques and you think, oh, well, that, that worked well for fur, or that was perfect for a skin texture. And it's through the process and trial and error where you find these things. And once you do find something that really works,
it's, it's the best feeling. And exactly, that would be with the lion that I completed today. I, I purposely chose an image that was, you know, quite challenging with the, the long fur and the short fur, the whiskers, the black background. But I wanted to try different techniques just to see how I could achieve the realism in the fur.
I have a class coming up with my students where they, they're drawing their own pet portraits, so I really wanted to have some techniques that I could show them is to achieve that as well. Amazing. With the, with the, 'cause you work on like a hot press, don't you, you, that's the, the main paper that you work on.
So when you do a, a, like a really solid black background like you've done on the lion, what, what's your technique for that? So I've, I've colour in the background with a, a black poly como, but I, I don't like the little pencil marks that you can see on the paper. So I usually do a black watercolour wash over the top,
and that makes it matte, it gives the paper a bit of texture. So it's almost like working on pastoral mats, so then you can rework the white fur over that surface. And that kind of happened by mistake when I first discovered it, but yeah, it really does work. Oh Wow. So do you do, you'll obviously, you know,
I, I mean, I'm not trying to, you know, pick up all of your secret techniques, not that secret techniques, but you, you know, so it's got half of it's obviously you've got the lion on the on one side, and you've got the background on the other. So you just do all of your Polychromos black first. Yep.
I will do most of the drawing first. Right. And then I will start to colour in the black. And it's amazing how the colours change. So I, I think it's important to start with the darkest as well, by colouring in the black background, it changed the colours of the lines fur. Yeah. It's amazing how your eyes, you know,
it changes, but colouring in the background with the poly chromo, all of it, and then completing the, the image and then the final touch is the, the watercolour wash and then your little highlights. Right. And the watercolour wash is literally just, is just a black watercolour over the top, Even just a black watercolour, the little containers, the little,
yeah. Called the little palette. Yep. Just wetting up a bit of black on a brush and just a really light wash. I mean, it doesn't need to be dark, just really light wash. I'm guessing your, the, the, the background that you do with your, with your black pencil, the black colour pencil, do you try and get it as even as possible?
I do try to, yeah. But it's, it's possible you can see every little direction that you're colouring in with the pencil Yeah. And the light shines on it. Yeah. That would annoy me. So I, I really, that's really Interesting. Right. Okay. Yeah. That's really interesting what you were saying about how values change is really interesting because it is so true.
And I, I dunno whether you subscribe to Ann Kohlberg's colour magazine, you know Ann Kohlberg? Yeah. So in her latest, in the latest version, she's done a whole piece about how she does, if she's doing a portrait and she does the background and everything like that, she'll do all of the background first and then come to the face for a couple of reasons.
One, because that's her favorite bit to do. So she's always looking forward to coming to do that, that favorite bit, which I completely get. And two, because once she's got all of the values around the face, it's then much easier to get the values in the skin. And this is what I've found now. Yes. From starting to do more human portraits,
the first human portrait I did, the values were way out, very pale skin, and they've gradually got darker and darker and darker. And it always amazes me the, the strength of the colours that you'd use, even in relatively fair skin. And the little girl that I've just done, I did her hand in isolation, the one holding is holding a daffodil,
and I did her little hand in isolation and my daughter walked in and said, oh my God, I think she's, she's gone a bit heavy with a fake tan mum. And the little hand was really dark, and I was like, oh goodness. I'm sure I've got my values right, but it, it just doesn't look right. As soon as I put the context around it,
the colours just changed, the values changed. It looked like it was supposed to look. And I think this is where a lot of people struggle, particularly with things like white fur, because we see white is white and we don't, for some reason, our brain doesn't compute all of those darker values in something that we consider light. Yes. There,
there are many portraits that I've had to restart because I would, I always start with the nose, the eyes and move my way around, but then when it comes time to adding the hair, because the hair is dark, then the, the face is, is too light. So you need to, to work it back in. But it is important to add the darker values in.
Definitely. Yeah. Is, is there, has there been a portrait that you've done that that really kind of changed your outlook on your work? Was it the one that you did that when you were like, oh my, oh my goodness, this is just going to be a game changer for me? I think when I discovered a process with my colours,
and I think it was most important with which colour I would start with, and the brand of pencil, that, that really changed it for me. I think starting off with a dert, I think the colours are a lot softer than the Polychromos or prisma colours. But if I would try and find the midtone of the skin of the portrait that I'm drawing,
if I start off with the midtone and draw the entire face, all of the detail with that colour, then I can work back to light and I can work into the darkest areas. I think that process just, and, and now I stick to it, it's, it's the way I begin every portrait. Right, Right. Find finding the middle tone and,
and drawing the entire portrait with that colour, with that one colour before I start adding the others. And then going back in again with the, with the other bit. So you work kind of over the entire, although you don't always do that, do you sometimes work in sort of sections, but with Yes, It's confident enough, but if probably worried about the picture and,
and I'm really worried about getting it right, I will start with the one colour. Mm. And then I know if it's, if it isn't looking right, I'll start again. Right. Yep. Right. And you've know, I know some people get, one thing that really upsets me is, is people getting really cross with their drawings and kind of ripping it off the drawing board and ripping it off.
And it's something that I've never felt the need to do that I have restarted pieces, but it's always been a quite a measured decision that I've taken. I'll be i'll, I'll kind of go along, I'll go along, I'll maybe have a feeling I'm not quite sure this is working, and then all of a sudden I'll be like, no, this isn't working.
I'm going to restart. But it's always been a measured decision and it's never been done out of anger or frustration or anything like that. And I, I'm always trying to find ways to help people who get really angry with their, with their work, because I know a lot, I know it's frustrating you if you can't get something. Right. If you've got any words of wisdom for people who just get frustrated with something,
You definitely, I think just, you just really need to take a step back, walk away, calm down, and, and then look at it again. And if it's still really bothering you, just, just calmly like, I think I'll feel better about starting again. I know where I kind of went wrong there. And just keep that in mind when you are starting again.
I think if you kind of, if you are really not happy and you keep on trying to change it, it just gets you more and more frustrated. But sometimes it's, you can be too hard on yourself as well. So it is worth taking a break sometimes and, and then coming back to it. And sometimes you might think, oh, that's not bad.
That actually looks pretty good. Why was I so hard on myself? But other times you just like, Nope, that's not working. It's, it's not gonna happen this time soon. Just start again. You, you come across as a very sort of calm, very serene sort of personality, is how I'm seeing you now. Is is that you,
is that how I'm just, I'm a little bit nervous, but yeah, no, this is me. I think I'm pretty patient and calm and I, I think that shows in the drawing as well. That's just, you know, patience and yeah, I guess working an awful lot with children. 'cause you do work an awful lot with children. Was there a,
was there a decision, was that really what you wanted to do, you wanted to work with, with children and help them? Or did you just sort of slip into it? Well, I kind of, I, I never really thought about it, but with my posts on pace on Facebook, a lot of people would ask, oh, you should teach.
And my child loves drawing and, and I thought, oh no, I just love to draw. I wouldn't know how to teach it. So I just kind of do what I do. I can't explain it, but I thought I, I wouldn't mind giving it a try. So I did and absolutely loved it. I didn't think I'd enjoy it so much.
I mean, I just sat down with a few kids, probably six to start with. I just showed them what I do and they just followed me step by step. I know my kids love to watch the learn to draw tutorials on YouTube, so I thought I'd just do it the same way, you know, just bit by bit. And we had so much fun and it kind of just evolved.
It just, you know, just went from there. Brilliant. And is that something that you now do on a, on a very, very regular basis? Is that part of your business model? I guess the Yes. Yes. Now it is. It's, I I love working with kids. I love the energy that they bring to the room.
It's, it's just a, it's a beautiful social group as well. They love to chat and, and they, they, they just love creating and seeing their faces when the parents come to pick them up and they're showing their parents their drawings, it's nothing can imagine. And of course you don't get all of the hangups you get with, I mean,
I've, you know, I teach the pe well my, the people I teach are basically like similar age to me. You know, I don't think anybody will be upset if I say, you know, when, when we get to our age, we've been through so much. We have got hangups, we have got, you know, ideas, we have got limitations.
You know, we have these limiting beliefs that we can't do this with children. They haven't kind of gone, got to the stage where life gets in way, have they, They, they're so willing to give it a go. And, and I do find that the adults are so hard in themselves, really, really doubt themselves. But the, the children,
they just wanna get right into it and, and experiment there. Yeah. There is a big difference. Yeah. The, the adults are so hard on themselves. Amazing. And I guess with the children, you don't have, what sort of age group do you teach? Oh, anywhere from five to 16, 17. Right. It was a big range in age.
Yeah. And we, we are all equal in the class. So there's everybody just, there's, there's no harsh comments. Everyone compliments each other's work. And it's just this really beautiful environment. Oh, that's really nice. And I can imagine that then gives you a fabulous vibe as well. Yes. I'm always happy when I leave a class. Yeah.
Always happy. Amazing. Do you know, I don't, I don't think there's anything better than teaching, teaching life. So I've, I've been, have you considered teaching on online? Is that something that you sort of have thought about? I Have thought about it, but I think I just like that face-to-face interaction that, that one-on-one, if there is a,
a, a question that someone has, I can actually show them and I can supply the products that I use. And I know it's hard to have, you know, there's so many colours and, and different brands and it's hard to have everything. So I like to supply that as well. So everyone's on the same page. Yeah, Yeah. The face,
the face to face stuff. I mean, obviously over the last few years it's been quite tricky and I, my last face, well in person was in the beginning of 2020. Oh yes. And I haven't done any in person stuff since then. And, and I, I'm planning something for this November, which is, which I'm really excited about.
But you, you are absolutely right. You know, being able to sort of show, show somebody firsthand what pressure looks like, because it's so easy for somebody saying, I'm going as light as I can, light, but they're light as they can, might not be my light as I can. And being able to actually, well almost hold the hand and just go right,
lighter, lighter, lighter or darker. Darker, darker. And like you say, well if you use this pencil, this is the effect that you get. Which is just, just incredible. And you don't get that sort of, well, I dunno whether it's the same in Australia, but certainly in England, you don't get that level of creative teaching in schools.
No, not at all. I find a lot of the, the schools lately I've heard art, offering art for their students. And I think it's just so important for them to be able to express themselves and have that outlet. And I know a lot of art teachers aren't artists in schools, which, you know, kind of makes it difficult as well.
Yeah, I know. And I don't, I honestly don't think it's changed much since I was at school in the eighties. You know, it's all about, you get, and I, I know schools have budgets and everything, but you get rubbish, weird paints and Yeah. You know, dreadful paint brushes that look like a toilet brush, you know,
and how can you possibly do good stuff with, you know, like a piece, it's almost like a piece of toilet paper that you're painting on. It's, it's just, it's awful. And I know they've got budgets and everything, but I was completely, I wanted when I was at school, that's, I, I loved drawing and I loved art and I drew horses and I,
and I loved it. And did, did go on to sort of like a higher, after my, at 15 when I left school, I went on and did two years at college and it was completely put off art. I did want to go and do a degree, a fine art degree was told I wasn't good enough really. And then that was it.
That was it. No, no more art then for 30 years, no more. I mean, I was creative because I was working in the creative space in graphic design and everything and, and, and online and digitally. But that's a real shame. And do you know the amount of people, I've just sent an email out recently telling a little bit about my story to my mailing list.
I can't tell you the amount of responses I've had back that have said I, I exactly the same thing put off at school, told I wasn't good enough, told I couldn't do it, and I haven't drawn for however long. And for me, the coloured pencils and being creative again, just completely changed my life. You know, when I picked them back,
when I picked them up, I'd never used them before. But when I picked them up in 2016, just for colouring books, I've, I've started to do a few little tutorials that are based on colouring rather than actual, you know, realistic drawing. Because even that, you know, if somebody says, oh, I can't possibly do realistic drawing,
well you can colour and the amount of peace you get if you can just sit down and do. And it's just the most fantastic thing. Definitely, definitely. And, and it doesn't make a big difference with the products that you use. You can't achieve the same result. I think paper's so important. I think that's number one paper I've tried to draw portraits on,
on different paper and it's just, just doesn't happen. And, and pencils as well, you know, some, some just don't have that, you know, that that depth of colour that you wanna achieve, no matter how hard you push with that pencil, it's, you are not gonna achieve that. But I, I think it's important as well to have the right materials.
Mm. Definitely. I think I was, I can't remember, I think I was probably answering somebody in know Facebook or something and, and actually when I think about it as a coloured pencil artist, if somebody said to me, what's the most important material? What, what have you got to get right before anything else? Weirdly, as a coloured pencil artist,
I would say my surface, my paper. If I don't have a, you know, a good surface, then, you know, I'm not going to achieve brilliant stuff. Saying that. I did have, I think back in 2019, this amazing woman and she came to me for one-to-one lessons and she'd been drawing on like, it was like shiny cardboard.
Okay. But she was doing the most amazing job, which is called Christine, Christine Turtle, I think I, i, I think it's Christine Turtle. And she brought me her work and she was like, this is the, this is the surface I've been working on. I was like, oh my goodness, how are you managing to, and her work was just,
oh. And I said, oh my goodness, when you start working on a surface that actually helps you, I don't know where your work's gonna go. And she started working on Pastelmat and she blew my mind with the quality of the work that she was, 'cause she was working so flipping hard on this horrible shiny card, you know. So when she used a surface that was so forgiving and took the pencils,
and took the layers and everything, she was like, oh my God. It's like, completely changed her world, you know? So I guess, I guess if you've got that, I'm gonna say talent and we'll, we'll talk about that in a minute. I guess if you've got that, that bit of a spark, you, you probably can create a masterpiece on a,
on the back of an envelope. Yeah. But it's gonna be really hard. And I think just the, the, you know, you, your, your normal artist like me, you know, it's gonna be really, really, really hard work. And I'm not sure I have got the perseverance to keep going on something that's, you know, that's just too hard.
I'm a bit lazy. It makes it difficult. Yeah. What do, what do you feel about, because I, I know you all have exactly the same thing as, as countless other artists and me, you'll have people complimenting your work and saying, oh, you've got a, a talent, a a god-given talent, all of that kind of stuff.
Personally, I take it as the compliment. It's meant to be. I always take it as a compliment. I never feel hard done by or or anything like that. But I know it's a, you know, it's definitely something that comes up in my groups quite a lot, you know, and people will be a little bit disgruntled maybe if somebody says they've got talent and it's not talent,
it's just all the hard work they've put in. What's your feeling on talent and all of that kind of stuff? I guess it's nature nurture, isn't it? Yes. I think it's, you know, there is a bit of talent, but it also takes a lot of practice. You know, I've been drawing all my life and drawing every day.
I wasn't at this stage, you know, 20 years ago, my drawings looked a lot different, but, but I don't, I don't get upset when people say you are talented. I, I take it as a compliment and I'll always thank them for it. But I, I think maybe you need a little bit of both, but, but I definitely think if you don't have a drawing talent,
you can definitely develop it through, you know, through practice. And I think it, it depends the way you, you see things as well. I think that's very important. So I have a, a brother who is a, an opera singer Oh wow. A very good, a very good opera singer. Has a beautiful voice and has had a beautiful voice since he was,
well, since he was born, he was head corer, sang for the queen, you know, a, a very, very beautiful voice. And he has definitely got a, a gift. However, he's had to hone that gift. He's had to practice, he's had to put all of the work and everything in. I think with art, with,
with anything really. Some people have a little spark of something, whether it is a, a a little bit of magic that they really do understand values and all of that kind of stuff. They, they have to put the work in to be able to, you know, to, to work it up and get to where they are. And other people just have to work incredibly,
incredibly hard. You know, it's like the, the, the chi the children at school, when you're at school, some children are really gifted and they just sail through and they don't have to do any work and, you know, they get all of their exams and everything. Other children have to work so hard. My, one of my sisters,
I've got quite a lot of, I've got four sisters and a brother. My sister who's just 14 months older than me, worked incredibly hard at school because she wanted to go into medical school. And it, she wasn't one of those people who had like a, you know, pho photographic memory or anything like that. She had to put the work in.
And she has worked so, so, so, so hard all of her life that she now has got to the point where she's really, really high up in, in the n h s. And she was sort of like number one her, she's a dermatologist, but she had to put all of that work in. But she had all of the passion for that,
you know, she was really passionate about it. So now she's, you know, she was number one. And I, I do think that with artists as well, even if you feel you don't have that talent or that spark or that whatever, you know, putting the work in really honing your techniques, really practicing, you know, you can,
you can be whatever you want to be, but there are going to be people who have got a natural gift, who get there quicker and who find it easier. I, I think it depends how interested you are as well. How passionate you are. Yeah. If the interest isn't there, I guess you're not really going to try. But if you are really interested,
even if you don't have that natural talent, it's something that you can achieve. If, if you have that passion and you want to do it, definitely I think you can achieve anything. Yeah, definitely. It's like me with this, this little girl that I've just drawn. So I love drawing texture. That Is amazing that, oh God, Love so much.
I love her so much. But I know that I could have done a far better job on the background. I, I know I could, but I just wasn't, I just wasn't passionate enough about grass. Oh, grass is one of those things. It is so difficult. Is so difficult. But that, that background was amazing. And that,
that denim, how incredible is it to draw denim? It's genau. I think that's probably one of my most favorite things to do now. Yeah, because, and, and what's what's lovely is people look at it and go, oh my God. Oh, that's amazing. Look at all of that detail. And I'm like, wait till you, 'cause I recorded it all.
Okay, wait Till you see. Wait till you see how I did it. Because it's really not hard. Yeah. It, it's easy To achieve. It's really not hard, Easy to achieve that look. Yeah, Because, because it's just how you lay your pencil down and what you take off the paper and it's that illusion of incredible detail and light and dark and light and dark in the,
I know they all have to be in the right places in the right quantity. And that's where it starts to get a little bit challenging. But I do feel that some people think with realism you have to sit there and draw every tiny little bit of detail. And it, for me, I don't know whether that's what you do, but for me,
that's not how I do it. I look at a structure and I go, that's the texture, that's the quality I'm wanting. How do I achieve that with my pencils in the quickest and easiest way possible? And, and then off I'll go and usually it's just a couple of layers and some eraser, Basically getting it down and then you can fine tune the detail.
Yeah. Especially with fur and hair, rather than trying to draw every single little strand. It's just getting that block section in and then you can, you can fine tune it after that. Yeah, No, definitely. Is that one of the things that you teach your students? So one of the things, so I do, I do a lot of critiques and one of the things that comes up time and time again is people are so invested and almost obsessed with detail,
but the detail that are like hairs, individual fur, all of that kind of stuff. And as I've kind of grown as an artist, I've come to realize that actually I don't need to put those in and they can be quite distracting. So I, when I'm advising people and I'm critiquing their work, I'll talk about having, you know, you can have areas in your drawing,
the same drawing where you've got high detail and then areas where you're just kind of coming out a little bit and it's a little bit softer and you, you kind of come outta focus and you don't focus on the details, is that I know that your pieces are absolutely wonderful and I from your pieces, I see exactly that. Is that something, how do you teach your children not to be obsessed with details?
Or do you just allow them just to do whatever they they wanna do? I kind of allow them to do what, what they feel they need to do. But I guide them, you know, from the beginning. We block in the colours that we see and work it up from there. You know, sometimes if they wanna go heavier in a section,
I let them, let them do that, let them experiment and find their way. But definitely blocking in the sections and, and seeing the values, just kind of studying a picture and, and breaking it apart into the values. I think it's important to kind of see an, an image that way. Hmm. Otherwise it's hard to know what to put.
Where Do you, do you use grayscale images at all to help them sort of like understand their values or any of the, like the, the little, I was gonna pull one out here, but I dunno where mine's gone. Like the little value card things? No, we haven't used those, but we have done a few black and white studies of an eye and and lips and I think that was really helpful.
We used blending tools a little, what are they called? The little paper stumps. Oh yes. Yeah. We used those blending tools and we used a bit of tissue on the end of our finger as well, just to get some really nice tones in the eye and the face and, and they really loved that it was something that could be achieved easily and look realistic.
And then we just went back in with needle erasers and putting in some highlights and with the eyes and black and white eyes. I think that was an important lesson just to teach them the values. 'cause it can be, it can be so confusing when there are so many colours. It sometimes it's good just to step back. That's it, isn't it?
You know? And, and I think colour just confuses, just confuses everybody. Yeah. I have a saying that, you know, colour, colour just isn't important when it comes to realism. Values are, are number one. And then I guess everything else is number two. You know, I know when you're drawing somebody's dog or cat or horse or whatever,
you do want to get the colour, you know? Correct. I guess. But you can still push colour and have it look realistic. You know, you can have, you can have something in a completely wrong colour, like bright pink or bright yellow or whatever. If you've got your values and everything, it's still gonna look really realistic. Colour does have,
its have its place because obviously, you know, if you're drawing a realistic portrait of a dog, you need to have it the, the right coluor. But you, you are never gonna have it realistic if you don't have your values. Right. And that's something that I do try to put over to my students because people become obsessed with getting the right mix of colour.
Yep. Definitely Four years. I would only draw monotone portraits. I was so afraid to use colour so many years and, and that's all that I would do. But then when I discovered colour, it was a game changer. But I think it is important just to practice monotone and just get those values right. Yeah. How do you mix your colours?
How do you, when you are, you know, when you're working on a portrait for yourself, say you're starting a new portrait, you obviously pick, if you're doing a, a human portrait, you pick the midtones, you work with those, what's your process for mixing colour? There are so many colours that I can see in one spot. Sometimes I've,
I've had someone ask, what, what is that skin colour? And I'd say, oh, it's about 40 different colours mixed together. I don't know, I just, I study the photo reference and just see the colours and then I will just experiment. And until I achieve that, sometimes it's just one colour. Sometimes it, it might be a little bit of green,
then I need to put on top of that flesh tone so that it's not so red. I think it's important to, to have a bit of a knowledge about colour as well. If something is looking too pink, knowing what colour to add to that, to tone it down. Or if something is too green, knowing what to add to that, to brighten it up.
I find a lot of greens and violet purples a key to flesh tones. 'cause it can be really hard to get a realistic flesh tone. Yeah. So different, so many different variants of colour. And do you mix your colours on the, on the surface? Do you then just go and write, well like, experiment with this or do you swatch or I,
I straight onto the surface. Yeah, straight onto it. Yeah. I probably shouldn't, but it's Just, well, I mean, I, I, well I think there's no right or wrong is there, that's exactly what I do. I mean, I might have a, I might have a bit of a, particularly with colours that I don't know,
you know, if I'm drawing something where I'm using colours that I don't know, I might just have a scribble at the bottom of the page, but I won't kind of work up layers and stuff. I'll just sort of shove loads of colours in until I, until I get the right one. But do you see, can, do you see colours in your head?
Can you sort of look at something and you've got like a visual in your head as to what might work? Yep, definitely. Yep. I kind of break it up. It's almost like a puzzle. Break all the colours up in a sweet, sometimes when I'm talking or having a conversation with someone, I do the same thing to their face. I probably wonder why I'm staring at them so weirdly.
But yeah, so break everything up into colours, into shapes just by studying that image. And I think you just, you end up having your favorites that your, your go-to, but it's, you know, it's important to experiment from there as well and try, try other things. But I do definitely see the colours. So I, I, I've been drawing for seven years and I,
I think get more and more and more excited about my drawing every day. I've never got to a point where I, I don't want to draw. I mean, there might be days where I choose not to draw because I'm doing something else, but I've never got to the point where I'm like, oh, I can't do this. I've never got to the point of burnout or,
or any, anything like that. I, I guess I'm, I guess I'm lucky that way, although I do in my business, I make sure I have a lot of help. I always ask for help. Yeah. And I think that's probably one of the reasons why drawing is still very much a, a hobby for me as well as it being,
you know, the most important part of my business, you know. Has there ever been a time where you felt that you didn't want to draw or, I've never really had that, that burnout. It's always, even sometimes it can be discouraging if you, you're given a photo reference that is really not, really not a good reference. It might be,
you know, really blurry or hard to, hard to see. But I kind of look at it as a challenge. It's like, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get this. It's always a challenge. I've never not wanted to draw. And what's your, what's your favorite subject to draw? Oh, I definitely, animals. I've always loved to draw animals.
Love to draw fur and eyes I guess. But yeah, definitely fur. I just love the texture and just creating that depth. And is there something, I dunno whether you are like me. I have a collection of, of photos that I sort of collect or I've got ideas in my head and everything and I'm like, right, this is my,
because I do pieces for myself, you know, in between commissions and sort of like tutorials and things. Is there a piece that you are, you'd really want to draw but you haven't yet? Or that you're looking forward to doing? It's funny you say that because the, I rarely get to draw for myself. So the lion has been one that I,
I chose for myself and just for that challenge. So I was really excited about starting that. I love it when you have that piece and you just don't wanna put it down. You could, you lose track of hours and you just sit there for hours and hours just enjoying it. But it is nice to make a bit of time for yourself to,
to choose an image and, and get excited about drawing something. Lovely. Definitely. And then finally, because we, we've, we've been talking for nearly an hour. Honestly, I'm, I've, I can't tell you how excited I'm Me too. I've been so nervous about this little, Oh God. Oh no, you don't need to be nervous about.
Can you describe your, I guess, a, a little bit about your workspace, but also do you have any kind of a, a ritual? Is there a certain time of the, the day that you draw? Do you have to have a cup of tea there or, you know, do you have to have a sandwich before you draw? What's sort of your,
your normal ritual for sitting down and to draw? Definitely it, my cup of coffee and I love to sit there and draw while I listen to True Crime podcasts. I kind of just get lost and I just listen and, and I just draw and, and the time just goes by. And that's my, my little happy place, I guess. Finally enough.
And my workspace, I mean, I'm just drawing on a desk. Sometimes it's on the dinner table if the piece is, is quite large and sometimes it's doesn't really work out well. I came home one morning from a, a school drop off to find a, a piece that I'd been working on three weeks in the making. My dog had gotten up and grabbed it off the,
the table and I found it. It was just absolutely demolished. Couldn't believe it. That was one that I had to start again. Oh no. And I Had to send it to the United States. It was a commissioned portrait that was a, a gift for someone. And I was so excited about finishing it. 'cause like I said, it had taken like countless hours over three weeks and I was excited about getting home,
making my coffee, sitting down and finishing it. And my, my dog made a mess of it. Oh no. What sort of dog have you got apart from a naughty One? Oh, oh gosh. Right, okay. I've got a, well, I've got, she looks like a caucus, but a working cocker. She's actually a cockapoo,
but she doesn't look like a cock. She's like a little one. They're naughty. He is naughty. And he just, he eats everything. Absolutely everything. Oh no. So you draw flat, you draw flat. Flat, right? Yes, yes. Definitely. I paint up on an easel. Yeah. But I draw flat. It's not,
it's not ideal for my wrists, but I think that's the way I'm most comfortable working. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, wow. Oh, it's, honestly, it's, I'm so sad for you, for your portrait of, I, I know I shouldn't laugh, but, you know, that's the most, one of the most devastating things to happen,
isn't it? When you Work At Ruined. I just, I think the hardest, the hardest thing was, was knowing I had to redraw what I had already done. Just, I don't like drawing the same thing twice. No, I think that was the hardest part. But I mean, the, the second time around it, I, I think it looked better than the first one,
so. Well, there you are. Silver Lining. Oh my goodness. Oh gosh. Oh, well it's been, it's been absolutely wonderful talking to you. And I know there are so many people who are gonna be really, really excited to, to hear more about you. Oh gosh. Work and everything, you know, and I'd love to talk to you again sometime,
maybe not on, on a podcast and everything. 'cause I honestly, I, I just, I think your work is incredible. Thank you. You know, lovely. And, and, but the other thing as well is your work is incredible, but you come across as just the most lovely person. Oh, thank you. Since so to you,
it's been so nice chatting with you. Oh gosh, my, my absolute pleasure. You Have to do it again and Yep. Yeah. Put the cap on and sit down and have a chat. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's something I've been, have been thinking about and I know I've got another Australian artist actually, who was saying that she'd really like to almost get into sort of like a little bit of a,
a huddle every now and again, you know, for working artists, just to have a bit of, a bit of a chat and everything, which would be quite nice. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you so much. I guess it's your evening and you'll be, you'll be off to, off to bed or whatever. Yes. Yeah.
I've got the whole day in front of me, so thank you so much for your time. Thank you for chatting. Thank you for having me on. Oh, it's been an absolute pleasure. It's just been honestly brilliant for me to chat to you. It's been luck. We'll speak, We'll speak again really soon, hopefully. No worries. Awesome.
Okay, thank you. You have a lovely day. You too. Bye Bye.
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my, It's A Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show or sharing it on social media with those you know, who might like it too.
My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my community's experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional, and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet, please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the Coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com.
And remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time.
