Hi, Cat. Switch your microphone on. Yeah, there we go. Is that it? Yeah, we're in. We're in. Hello. Fantastic. Hi, Bonnie. Hi, yeah, it's so nice to talk to you. I've followed you online for ages and I feel like our stories are so similar in a lot of ways with like, just giving up art for so long and sort of coming back to it again and, yeah, it's just really, really nice.
I always see your post and think you're like so positive and, yeah, just, well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you about my non positive two days in a minute, but it is, it is really, really nice to speak to you. And I love having these, these chats with, with other, well, other people, just other people just having a bit of a chat and especially if, you know, if you've got a story to tell as well.
That's really, really nice. And this is the, this is the podcast. This is, this is it. We're in it. We're in it. Now. I'm not. I don't do. Right, let's. Now, you know, some of the podcasts I've been on where they've prepped me, they've had all of these questions and I was like, oh, gosh, this sounds all very, you know, I'm not like that. I'm just dive straight in and let's just chat.
That's nice. Oh, gosh. So give me a little bit of an introduction. Tell me about yourself. Obviously know who you are, what you do, but yeah, just, just tell us a bit of your story. No worries. So, yeah, yeah, so, quite similar to you, really. So I was always into art and I knew that when I left school I was absolutely determined that I wanted to do graphic design.
So I went to college, went to a really nice college, actually. It was very small and friendly and I studied graphics for a couple of years and then I decided that I wanted to go into more fine art. So then I did a foundation in fine art and that was a really nice, just a lovely environment where all the tutors were really very supportive and it was all about kind of traditional art practises.
So we were taught quite a variety of things, but it was just very encouraging and positive and there was never any kind of negativity there at all. But then when I finished that course, I felt a bit lost because I just thought, well, I'm not really sure what I'm going to do next. And there was a big push at the time, so this was early, two thousands. So there's a big push at the time for everybody to go to university.
And so I got into a university, but as soon as I got in there, the environment was completely different. So what happened was it was very much all about modern art. And there was, for an example, like one of my, one of the other students that I was living with put a piece of string on the wall and then was talking about how the life of a different piece of string and how this, like, represented life.
And it went on about this, like, piece of string and then meanwhile, I'd, like, spent ages painting and the tutors hated it. And then, like, they were just like, oh, this piece of string is so amazing and it evokes all these emotions. And she was just like, having a laugh with them, but they were taking it so seriously and I was just like, I don't think this is the place for me because I just wanted to paint.
I just wanted to just paint and express myself and. And it was just a completely different mindset and obviously there's a place for that. And, you know, art is subjective, isn't it? People like different things, but it was just. Yeah, just a different mindset altogether. And so they really didn't like my work. Everything I put out, they didn't like. I just got constant criticism. And then when it kind of came to a head, I was there for about nine months and it came to a head when we were in a lecture and they were saying how that the life of an artist is all about struggle and how, you know, you're never going to make any money.
And the only way to make money is going to be to get into these top London galleries. And if you can't, you know, it's going to be who you know and who you associate with. And if you don't get into these places and get in these circles, then you're not ever going to make it. Now, I was about 21 at the time, so I'm a summer baby, so I left school at 15.
So I'd done quite a bit of education by this point. It was about 21. And obviously when you're that age, you don't really find that very appealing, do you? You know, you want to go out and have fun, you want to go travelling and on holidays. And the thought was just like, this is not going to work for me. How am I going to make this work? And the other thing about it was that obviously, this is way before the Internet is before.
Well, the Internet existed, but it was very basic. So hotmail accounts, there was no YouTube. I don't believe at that time it was possibly just starting. There was no social media and so the only way that I could see to get my work out there was what they said to get in these galleries. And obviously it wasn't lost on me that when I was sitting in this lecture, I'm paying this guy literally by the second in tuition fees, and you just think, this is really racking up now.
And so I just left and I just thought, you know what this is, I can't see how this is going to work. I just couldn't find any kind of path forward for me. And so I'd done a few things, like I'd always worked loads of jobs, so I worked waitressing and in call centres and things like that. And so I ended up getting a sales job and working in retail sales and customer service and training other people.
And then that was basically my career for the next 16 years. So I just threw myself into that and I really enjoyed it because I love helping people and I love growing my knowledge and learning and just being able to match people with what they wanted. And I was never like a pushy salesperson, you know, I hate all that sort of sleazy sales. It was all about trying to help people and give people what they wanted.
And so I found that a really fulfilling job for quite a long, quite a long time. And quite honestly, I forgot that I even really did art. I didn't practise it in my spare time, I didn't do it as a hobby. It was almost like that part of my brain just went, no, it's not possible. Give up. It's silly dream, just give it in, you know, and you just think there's a part of you that just kind of shuts it off.
And I think I challenged. I kind of channelled my creativity in different ways. So I've always been into gardening and I've been decorating my house and interiors. And there's other ways, isn't there, where your creativity kind of seeps out in other areas, doesn't it? Because you're not actually doing the work. But then I had a really big realisation when I was on maternity leave. So my work was a lot of evenings and weekends, and it wasn't really compatible with my first daughter being born.
I did go back to work for a bit, but then when my second daughter came along, I then had a toddler and a baby and this job that was taking me away from them a lot. And I thought, you know what? This isn't working. And so I thought, I'm going to have to find another path. And I was. And I just thought I'd just got to trust that something's going to come up.
And I really didn't know what that was going to be. And so I was kind of. I just thought, I'm just going to keep my eyes open for something that will come up, but still not thinking about my art at all. And then I was drawing pictures with my kids and I'd been to a local boot fair where I'd like, bought a load of picture frames just to hang on the walls, maybe to put something different in the frames.
And I just thought, actually, do you know what? I might just paint something to go in that picture frame. And as soon as I started painting with my kids poster paints, I just had that realisation and it all came back. And you know that feeling where you just. I get goosebumps thinking about it because it was such a moment where you just have this realisation. It was just like a flash of, why am I not doing this?
I kind of remembered it. And also I was so in the midst of that, that time now it's like where you're in that baby zone of just not getting any sleep. Everything's about everybody else. And for that moment, it was like, I'm finally getting something for myself again. Yeah. And so I thought, right, this is what I've got to do and I've got to give it a go.
And so, yeah, and I'm coming up to five years now since then. And I think things have grown quite slowly at first because obviously I had two kids with me early on and now both, both my daughters are now at school. So now, obviously I get to work on my business part full time and then within the school hours and it just works around them because then, you know, I can be around for them and I can work when I want to.
And because I love what I do, I'm happy to work evenings or weekends and fit it around them, but, like, you know, just have these holidays and I can do. I can go and take them to the beach and I can go and do things with them and I get to do what I really. Something that really fills me up and just, yeah, just feels like it's the right thing.
So I feel very grateful. I always feel hugely grateful and just happy that I found the right thing and that it's been the right opportunity now. And I think especially with social media and stuff now we now see other people such as yourself, that come on and say, this is my journey. This is possible. And I hope that more artists who have had this journey of being told actually you can't or been put off in some way because I think there's a lot of us.
Yeah, definitely. Like, we are now at the point where the Internet is here and we're seeing other people and other role models where I never had those role models. Well, you believe. You believe, don't you? You believe what you're told. Yeah. And then you just didn't, I didn't see anyone else do it. You know, it was, there was no example. No. It must have been the same for you.
Even more so. Even more so. And weirdly, we as humans prefer to believe something that's negative. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Why isn't it that one thing? You get like a hundred, like, good comments and there's that one trolling comment and it sticks with you and you just think, okay, like, just think of all the positive. It's really weird, isn't it? It is really weird. And, you know, and I, and I do think, I mean, that those, the comments and the trolls and everything on social media have been the downfall of so many artists who can, you know, who can't cope with those kind of comics and, you know, you can completely understand why.
Oh, yeah. You know, absolutely. Yeah. And actually, I do really trust my own process and journey. So some, like, when I first started again, I thought, oh, God, I feel so regretful that I didn't do this for all this time. But actually working in sales, customer service, having to deal with the public on a regular basis, I now feel like I have huge resilience and an understanding of people and how to deal with people, how to deal with customer service with people, that I just feel like it's never nice, but I do feel like I'm better equipped at dealing with that kind of negativity than a lot of people now.
And actually, if I'd just come fresh out of university, given it up, and then try to make it on my own at that point in this world now, it could possibly be a little bit too daunting and a little bit, you know, there's other new, fresh challenges now, aren't there? So. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think wherever we are in, you know, in time, there's always a challenge.
And I truly believe that where we are currently, it's the most amazing time, absolutely the most exciting time. And if you want with all of your heart to succeed and you put all of the things in place to help you succeed, and you surround yourself with people who are doing the things that you want to do and doing it well. There are so many things out there that are going to just help you and kind of just, you know, shimmy you along and, you know, you hear all of the time, I hear all the time.
I've got a couple of big groups and people are coming, oh, you know, nobody's buying anything. Oh, I've seen some, you know, I've seen this artist and this artist has said, oh, it's been a terrible year, and, oh, it's because of the recession or it's because people aren't buying. All my prices are too high, all of this sort of stuff. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but I am absolutely not surprised that you're not selling anything with attitudes like that, which, and I completely understand why somebody would have an attitude like that because they're being told from a role model that things aren't working for them.
So why on earth would it work for somebody who wasn't, you know, in the same sort of calibre? But why don't they concentrate on the people who are doing really well, who are selling their work, who are progressing, who are, and it's, I don't understand. It's really, really strange phenomena that us as human beings have, but we love to moan. Absolutely. And you know what? I just, I loved seeing people like yourself, and there's a few people now where they've shared their story, and it's just like it for me.
I think it makes you go, it's possible. If one person in the world has been able to make a successful career out of their art in this, in this time, then it shows it's possible. And I want to see those people so I know it can be done. And when you see that, you start, it gets rid of that imposter syndrome in some ways because you start going, okay, I'm not trying to break the mould here.
This is something that's been done. There's a path and it's working out a strategy of how you're going to get there and putting the work in and just keep going. And there's no, I don't think there's any magic to it, is there? It literally is a case of consistently showing up and focusing on those more positive role models and looking at what they're doing. And, yeah, I mean, that's why I had to, I recently had to come off threads for this reason, because of a shining light of hope in that thread because, come on.
And you were like, actually quite positive and helpful because I initially went on there thinking, oh, I can share some tips and help, and, you know, we can support other artists. This is a community is going to be like the back, the backstage bit. Yeah. Like where you're not as shiny and everybody wants to load Instagram. Yeah. But honestly, it was just, oh, you know, Instagram's terrible. And I just think, you know what I just found?
I ended up finding, like an Instagram guy, like a fitness guy, Sean Casey's name is, and he was, I was watching some videos from him and he was talking about how he'd grown his Instagram to like a million followers and he was showing other people how to do it. And you think all those people moaning, saying that it's terrible, it's the worst possible time. Instead of actually sitting there and saying, oh, this is like, no, this is impossible.
This is terrible for everyone. Go and find those examples of the people that are bucking the trend because they're out there, they exist, and those people are actually smashing it at the moment. Oh, gosh. I mean, I am on threads and I quite like it, but I'm really positive. And I like to surround myself with positivity. And it was quite depressing for a while because, and somebody said to me, well, it's the algorithm.
And what you look at, you get back. And I was like, but I'm kind of, it's just given me this stuff in my feed and it's all negative and I can't be doing with it, and it's just people moaning all the time. So I kind of had to come off, you know, sort of not post on there. And I mean, ridiculous. I've got quite a few followers on there.
I'm not entirely sure why. So now I just tend to post silly pictures and, like my cat in a frying pan and cat trying to do yoga with me. I'm sure there'll be somebody saying, like, this is cruelty to cat, you know, but it's, the other thing is, and I think this is something that we as artists get really, really, really sucked into, is likes. We just want likes and we want follows.
Yeah. And what, and, you know, that's fine if that's what your outcome is, you know, but if you're running a business, likes and follows kind of don't really mean anything. And some people say, well, you know, I need to have the following so that I've got people in front of my work. Fine, but, you know, who are the people who are following you? A lot of them, probably, in all honesty, are bots, you know, and it's.
We seem to have this real. It's almost like the vanity side of it, isn't it? It is. We've got to have the likes. We've got to have the follows. That's what makes us feel really good. And, you know, I'm the same. You know, if I don't get a load of. Load of likes, I'm like, oh, you know, why would I? Why should I bother? And then I have to think, well, hang on a second.
What are those likes bringing me? Are they bringing me business? Are the followers that I've got bringing me business when I've had a video that's gone relatively viral? You know, I've had a couple, I'll say relatively viral, because a viral video will be like tens and tens and tens of millions, and I've two that have gone just over the million on Instagram, which is amazing. What, did that bring me extra work?
No, didn't bring me any extra work at all. This is it, isn't it? And, you know, and yet we work so hard to get the likes and the follows and, you know, all of this sort of stuff on social media, but what does it actually bring us and who really are our customers? And what tends to happen is we go down this well, saying we. Some people go down a route.
I was looking at one today and I was like, oh, my goodness. And I think I was thinking, oh, my goodness. Because it's so. It's such a far cry from what I do. It's just. It's not. It wouldn't be in my remit to do this. So, you know when somebody says something like a trolling comment. Yeah. And this person's TikTok is basically, they take the comment and then they rip the person apart.
Right. It's an art, you know, they're a commissioned artist. And I was like, oh, my. And I can't. I can't hate it. Yeah. If I was buying your work, I'm not following you to buy your work. I'm following you to see you rip somebody apart for saying something to you. That's the reason I'm following you. And it doesn't matter however many followers you've got and however many likes you've got.
Are these people buying your work? No, they're not. They're having a laugh at, what's this person? And I just find it really peculiar, you know, when you're trying to run a business. You're not thinking of it as a, you know, whatever you're doing should be in my mind. I might be, I might be completely wrong and I'm happy for somebody to tell me I'm completely wrong. But, you know, in my mind, if you, if you've got a strategy, it's to get to an endpoint that, you know, your goal, that you've, that you've chosen, you know, you want.
And yes, you can have a little bit of fun every now and again, but the strategy just to kind of rip people apart isn't going to get people buying your art. No, no, I don't feel like either. That is just likes and follows. This is it. I mean, I don't know whether it's because of giving up for so long and coming at it a bit older and with a bit more experience at other jobs and things.
I don't know what it is really, but I just always feel like you, I'd rather have a business that grows very, very slowly over the next 20 years that was in complete alignment with my values than something that makes me a million pounds in the next six months, but is done in a way which, like you say, is just clickbaity negativity, like something doing something outrageous just to get attention.
That doesn't sit with me at all. And I'm sure there are people that are doing that very successfully at the moment where they're just doing whatever they can for a quick like, and possibly a quick sale. But even then, like you say, it doesn't always translate to sales. Like, no, it's, you know, I've found that with reels and things like that, it really can be 1 minute you get absolutely no views, the next minute something blows up.
But yeah, like you say, they're not getting an email list. So like, you know, I am convinced, I am convinced there's a little man in a cupboard at meta, a little bit like the wizard of Oz sitting there going, oh, they've done really well. Right, let's just dial the it down on that one because I'll go, I'll get like load of light, load of follows. Yeah, I think I got about something like ridiculous, like 40,000 or 50,000 in a, in a couple of weeks.
And then it just goes and stops. Yeah. And starts going backwards and that, that's like, that's, that's really, it's really detrimental to your mental health when you say your figures backwards. This is it, you know, because I think our brains are trained to go like growth, growth, you know, we've got to keep, keep building, you know, but it's not. Yeah, you've just got to remind yourself it's coming down.
Has it had an impact on my bottom line? Has it had an impact on the sales that I'm making within my business? No. Sales continue to go up, so it's not making any difference at all. It's not. And I think people do put a lot of weight onto it. I mean, I've just, I usually schedule all my posts out and at the start of the east holidays I was going to do it and I didn't.
I got sidetracked with having a painting day and decided that I like, needed a self care painting day before I had like my kids back for two weeks. So I really dropped the ball on my social media this month, which is so rare because usually everything's scheduled to like to the nth degree. But I, I had a couple of weeks off and I've barely posted for a couple of weeks and I have to say this has been one of my business and it's had no impact.
The social media side of things has had no impact. It's nice to have, but I've had wholesale orders coming in and stuff that's completely outside of that bubble. And I think that sometimes people can think, well, I'm just going to put it on social and that's my plan. But actually I think especially now, things change and evolve and you have to have different plans, don't you? You have to not have your eggs in one basket and just be home.
You really do. Somebody's just going to see your post because they might not. And it's only being shown to maybe 10% of your followers. It's funny. And things do change. Things definitely do change. So when I first started sort of back end of 2016 into 2017, that's when I first started my art pages. Growth was not ridiculously rapid, but it was quite rapid. And I only had two social platforms.
Now sort of seven years. Seven years, yeah. Seven years later, all of our concentration is on email marketing. Pinterest, YouTube, blogs, and then social media. And social media is to be visible, to be out there. Obviously I run all of my Facebook ads through meta and everything, but the biggest thing for us is our email marketing. That's the biggest thing for me, and that's why we put all of our effort into email marketing.
I have to say that if there's anyone listening to this right now, that's literally thinking about starting an art business or any anything really online. I would always say, just start building your email list from day one because then they're in your universe then, aren't they? That's your customers. Because, I mean, like the other week we had Facebook and Instagram and the amount of like, coaches and people that I follow who were like, straight in my email inbox saying, well, this is why you build an email list and this is why we build it, because you're putting all of your eggs into the social media basket and then, you know, it can just disappear overnight content and then you've got no way of contacting people.
Definitely. And I do think with email, you know, I do find that you get a lot more engagement, don't you? Like, you know, just put a sale out and, you know, soon, you know that as soon as you put out an email like that, you're going to get sales. Yeah. That audience is already there. They like your work enough that they're on that list. They're happy to be contacted by you.
And I do like a once a week. So people are used to hearing from me. It's not a surprise when I just turn up in their email box. They know me. And then once you've got that sort of bond with people and, you know, that's where the consistency comes in, isn't it? How did you, how did you feel about sending? Have you always sent, you know, when you first started, have you always sent an email out once a week?
So, no, so I started on Etsy and then I moved over to my own website and after the first year, and then once I had my website, I opened an email list and then I started contacting people maybe like once every two months it would be really on and off. The first, the first few months it was really on and off because I was sort of scared of contacting people, being a nuisance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's got that kind of fear and then I had, and then I kind of amped it up to once a month and now I have, and I've did that consistently and then I've done once a week now for probably a couple of years. So it's very consistent now and I just do it every week and it's done. But I do find that you, I've changed my mindset on it a lot because I recently got an email from somebody.
It was like a, like a soap company that I'd obviously subscribed to ages ago and they suddenly emailed me saying, oh, you know, we've got this amazing offer on and I was thinking, like, who is this company? I don't know who this is. And I was looking at it thinking, how have they got my email address? And then I realised it was somebody that I had signed up for but over a year ago.
And then it said on this email, oh, you know, sorry, you haven't really been in touch much. And I thought, well, if you'd actually contacted me every week for the last year, I would intimately know who you are, what you do. I might have bought your products multiple times by now, but because you've literally not shown up for a year, then I've got no idea who you are now.
Yeah. Yeah. And I did unsubscribe because I thought, well, this actually doesn't serve me now. I don't need it. Yeah, but actually you're, you're actually not serving your customer by not showing up. And I think that. I think you've got to shift that mindset. It's such a funny mindset, isn't it? Because I remember back, so I did used to send out a newsletter, but was very sporadic, very sporadic.
And I had a waitlist for my, for the people who were buying portraits and everything like that. And it was when I started to build my dog. Snoring. That's tough route, Nelli. That's the cutest background noise. And when I, when we started looking at building the, the membership back in 2021, the consultant who I was working with said, right, this is what you need to do, blah, blah, blah.
And it was all the digital online marketing. And she was like, right, you have to have a newsletter. Call your newsletter a name, you have to have a newsletter. It has to go out every week. And I was like, there is absolutely no way that I am sending out a newsletter every week. I said, I don't want to be that salesy, pushy person. I don't want to annoy people.
I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that. And now there are times where we send an email out every day. Yeah. You know, but it goes out every single week and it's got value. And we repurpose what's in the newsletter. It goes on to YouTube, it goes into the blog, it goes on to Pinterest. And it's an incredibly valuable marketing tool. You know, as a business owner, it's an incredibly valuable marketing tool.
But it also is that connection between me and my tribe, me and my people. And, you know, I get a lot of engagement from it. You know, I get a lot of engagement and people sharing their stories and all of that kind of stuff. And I think it's quite short sighted. You know, I've heard other people saying, oh, you know, you won't hear from me every week like you do with, you know, all of these pushy people and whatever.
Actually, that's your mindset. Your people may actually really love to hear from you on a more regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. If they don't, they'll unsubscribe or they won't open your email, but when the time's right, they'll find an email that comes up and they're like, oh, yeah, this is one that I really want. I mean, I subscribe to so many people and they come through and usually I'm just like, delete, delete, delete, delete.
And then one of them will pop up and I'll go, oh, hang on a second. This looks really good, right? I'm going to have a read of this and see what's what and maybe buy a course or buy a whatever. But I think we have to get out of particular if you're, we're running a business, we have to get out of that mindset that people want from us.
Yeah, absolutely. It's the same thing with being visible everywhere, really. It's, you know, there's a lot of people that say, oh, you know, I don't want to show up as the face of my brand. I don't want to show up or showing my face or even my hands making the products. I don't want to, you know, and again, same as me. At first, I really didn't want to like, you know, post a selfie of myself, you know, but I have to say that once I got out of my own way and just did start posting reels of me and who I am and my story, you know, it's something that people can connect to because you're just a real person.
And actually, you know, there's so many bot accounts and fake accounts. And now with AI got people actually looking like real people that aren't even real or like, yeah, I saw one the other day where there was a guy who literally made up like a woman, amazing looking woman, and been talking to all these guys online and he's just like, peeled his, like, latex face off and gone.
I was surprised it's actually a guy for this whole time and there's all these people on Instagram following her, but it's not real. Now. You've got to think that we are in this, this world now where so many things can be faked that actually when you do want to go and buy something online, you do gravitate to those people that are going to show up and be who they are and you know that that's a real person because actually you want that trust that it is real.
Yeah. And so I think that something that is helpful for everyone now really is to just try and be as visible as you can as a real person. Because, you know, I mean, I hardly wear like, makeup or anything now on my feet because I just think, just see somebody real, I'd rather just snap something quickly because I'd rather not just spend hours trying to make myself up when I don't in real life, I don't wear makeup that often, so why am I, why do that now?
You know, I'm just going to show up as myself. Yeah. For the people that go, oh, I couldn't show my face online. Well, you know, do you walk to your local corner shop? Do you, do you hide your face and say, I can't, can't show my real face. You know, you just show up. You show up in life, don't you? And actually, yeah, confidence is, confidence is a, is a really strange thing because, you know, you can be a really confident person, but in only certain parts of your life, you can be really confident in gardening or cooking or driving or, you know, that, that kind of stuff.
But then when it actually comes to, you know, being in front of a screen and talking, that's a whole different kind of confidence. And it definitely, you know, I've had quite a lot of, when I say help sort of coaching, you know, around different bits and pieces, but I've, I guess I can't remember the last time I, I guess because I was teaching before and I was teaching in person and I was actually teaching people who their English wasn't their first language.
That gave me a big element of confidence. And then when you're teaching in front of a screen, as scary as teaching in front of a, you know, a whole load of people, you know, so when I do a zoom, and maybe I've got like 400 people in the zoom, to be fair, you can only see about 20 of them. Yeah. It doesn't feel like, you know, it's not like you're sitting in a big auditorium with all of the people there.
But I surprised myself because when we did the art parties, because we've done two now, we've got another one booked for November, and you've got all these people in a room and they're all sitting there and they're all looking at you. The teaching side of things is okay. But then when I did the sort of Q and A and I sat on this stage and, you know, asking the questions, I felt so at home.
And I do think the reason behind that and the reason with having confidence, being able to sort of put your face on a screen is if you've already made a connection with the people. Yes. No. So if you're doing a video for, you know, TikTok or Instagram or whatever, if you've. If you already know some of the people and you've kind of engaged with them and everything, it's.
It's. It almost feels like you're just doing it for them, so it feels much more comfortable, you know, not like millions of people or whatever. And it grows. And the more you do, the, the more confident you feel, and then you don't care what you look like. This is it. You just let go after a while, don't you? Because you just think, well, you know, never mind. And also with, especially with posts where you might get a post that does terribly anyway, so you think, well, I'm not gonna spend hours trying to make this perfect because it might totally flop anyway.
So, you know, but I do think that, I mean, don't get me wrong, I didn't. It's not like I suddenly showed up one day and was like, right, I'm just gonna start doing reels and start doing more, you know, more talking videos and things like that. I still do get nervous. I still do things, you know, there's still times where I do start, like, doubting myself or, you know, just.
You do. You always get that, don't you, where you're doing something new. But I have to say that the only way that I've found to get past that is to just do small things and do it gradually, like, it's all been gradual. You know, I might have just posted a selfie to say, hi, this is me. This is my story. And then as time has gone on, now I've got my patreon where I make videos every week for my members.
So I'm talking on video all the time. And then it becomes more normal to do podcasts and stuff like that. So this, you know, you must feel like that with your own career now, that if you looked back now, you wouldn't have a clue, like, how you would have got to the point you're at now. But it just kind of happens over very gradual time, doesn't it, definitely.
And then before you know it, your life's completely unrecognisable. It is madness. It is madness. It's also madness. Talk to me about Patreon. Yeah, so, basically, I've set up a group called Hobby to hustle. So what that's about is helping other artists to start selling their work online and basically go through the steps that I took when I first started. So my path was that I started online with Etsy as my first platform that I used.
So basically setting up a basic funnel with Etsy as the first platform, and then I've obviously now gone onto my own website, so I basically mostly sell through my own website, but, yeah, so I'm now teaching people the practical side of literally how to step by step sell those things up. So at the moment I've got zero to ten, which is my first one, which is going to be literally how to set up a basic etsy, get your first couple of sales through that, and then I'm going to do other tiers, which are going to be about setting up a website, then getting into other areas of diversifying, so that you've got lots of different irons in the fire and lots of different ways of getting your income coming in.
So is your patreon up and running? It is, yeah, yeah, it's up and running now. I'm about to do a bit of a relaunch on it because I've just added tonnes of different modules, moved it all around. So I started it. I started it with no content at all. I just had an idea to do it and to try and help other people and then I've started adding more and more videos over the last year and now I'm going to be relaunching it.
So, yeah, that's going to be relaunched at the end of April. Have you thought about doing it on your own platform? I am thinking about that. I was wondering about moving over to something like kajabi and making it more of a course. Yeah, because at the moment it's like a membership model. So, yeah, the thing is, is that because obviously I did, I managed and trained other people for most of my career, and so I love that process of helping other people.
I would love to be able to just do the both things, so do my art, but also help others to get their art out there, because I feel like there's so many people that are on the sidelines with, like, awesome art that are just leaving in drawers. No, absolutely. Absolutely. So, have you heard of Stu McLaren? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Have you taken his. I haven't taken his course, but I have.
I did one of his free seminars a few years ago and I was not in a position to take him up on it, but I did really love his delivery and his enthusiasm. I know you work with him, don't you? And he is like, yeah, I mean, he told a story about getting his first sale and how it just was the most exciting, fantastic, amazing thing. Like, nothing beats the first one.
And that's so true, isn't it, that someone spent dollar 500 on ads and his sale was dollar 19 or something. I absolutely love it. I only ask about that because. So I started on Patreon. I still have a Patreon, but I don't put any new content in and my membership is through Kajabi and a platform called Searchie. And I just. Patreon is just such a horrible experience. Yeah, it's that thing again, isn't it, where you start off.
I mean, I always, you know, you start off like with Etsy and then with Patreon. Yeah, start off. It's like your training wheels to go and do something for yourself. And it's kind of like I wanted to test it out and see whether there was a market for it and how it's all going to look because I hadn't got any content for it yet. I just had an idea and I was like, right, I'm just going to make some videos.
I'm going to share what I know I'm going to. I'm going to share what I know I needed when I was there, like five years ago because, especially because I didn't know about memberships and things, I just thought you had to buy, like, you know, a massive, expensive course to know what to do. And so I just pieced together things. Yeah. At first I just pieced together stuff that I found free online and I didn't really know what was doing and, you know, you just, you're just gathering information on you at that point.
Definitely, yeah. But I would highly recommend creating your own, I think. Yeah. Scaling. Yeah. It's just a completely different culture to Patreon. The Patreon culture is join, leave in the same day and if you can take as much content as you can, this is the only thing, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, gosh. And then, of course, you can't control the customer service and all of that kind of stuff.
One of the things that I've realised is what you pay your platform fees for with Patreon is most definitely failed payments. Right. Okay. Yeah. So trying to. Cancellations. Yeah. Trying to keep on top of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is like. Well, it's just a whole job on its. On its own. Yeah. You know, if you've got your own platform, it. Yeah, yeah. But it's. Yeah, it's really nice having your own.
Your own platform because again, you own it. You, you know, you don't have to worry about what's going on and the politics within the company and all of that kind of stuff. This is it. But it's. Yeah. And then that the scaling can. Then this is. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's what I found when I went from, you know, getting from going from Etsy to my own website.
It was just like, oh, this is, you know, it feels like freedom, doesn't it? You can build your own list. You can. Everything's how you want it to be. You can make it your own. And there's. And obviously there's like challenges that come with that as well. And I don't think I would have been able to go from never selling anything online to just having a website. I needed those, that I needed, like, a safe space to put my work out and see what works.
But, yeah, I think definitely the long term goal should always be to have things in your own world and do things on your own, because then, you know, obviously there are challenges and like you say, we missed payments and things, but it's all things that you have to weigh up, isn't it? And actually absolutely not being the hold on to anyone. I absolutely love that you're helping people with that because, you know, people don't, they don't know what to do.
And some people have the personality or, you know, where they can go and research and they can go, right, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. They might be really tech savvy, all of that kind of stuff, but for just your ordinary, everyday person, they have no idea. They have no idea what to do. And like you say, you kind of just have to go through those little sort of, you know, the teething stage and, you know, the just sort of jump through all of the little hoops to find out, oh, right, this.
Oh, yeah, that. I'm going to do this. All right, that's how you do it. All right. That's how you do it. And, you know, I think there's more and more people who want to get into selling their work. There's more and more people who want to teach as well. And it's, I mean, you know, it's, it's just, it's brilliant that. Yeah. How do you, how do you, do you teach the social media side of stuff or.
Not really. Yeah. So I have got a module on social media that I'm going to start filling up now. So filling up the modules as things come up. But I have to say that, like, as you go through this process yourself of like, okay, so what did I need to know five years ago? What did, what, what were my gaps and in my knowledge and, like, what did I need at that stage?
As you start going back and thinking of these things, it does actually make you start rethinking things in your own business of like, yeah, okay. Have I actually revisited that lately? Is everything still as it was? And, like, by helping other people, quite often I'm like, here's the best practise. And then I go, actually, have I done that recently? I need to go back and make sure that I say not as I do.
Actually, you know, there's so much to do. Social media. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm currently writing a course that is coming out in October. Very entry level course, not going to be ridiculously expensive, but basically, you know, setting up a, basically what I did. So at the moment, it is going to be something like successful pet portrait artists. Yeah, that's kind of what it's going to be. And then I have a really big piece of work that I've been working on since 2021 that eventually will come out.
And that's part of my, the book as well, which I'm bringing out in 2026. But this small course, what I'm trying to be really careful about is because I want it to be long lived, I've got to be really careful about how I talk about social media because it changes so quickly, you know, so, I mean, there are things that are always the same, posting regularly, you know, making sure that you bring your character, your personality out in your content, you know, who your, you know, your audience is, all of that kind of stuff.
But the nitty gritty about social media. So I'm kind of vying away from that just because it would mean I'd have to update it all of the time. Yeah, you know, but, and again, you know, I think the people who are kind of really developing and moving up in their businesses are the people who buy courses themselves, go through stuff, free webinars. There are so many free webinars out there that you can learn all the different things, read books, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
And we're constantly learning. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, so there's a little gap in my story where, where I decided that I was gonna pursue my art. So the, the funny thing about it was that when I decided, I literally was like, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna try and sell art online. And as I decided, obviously I was in the job where I didn't, the job didn't serve me anymore.
So I went to go and put my notice in and I thought, okay, I'm gonna think about it over the weekend. And over the weekend I got an email saying there's redundancies coming up. So I actually ended up taking redundancy, which was perfect timing in the end. But when I first started, I needed to make that money last, so I had no money to invest in myself in terms of courses.
And so I would just get as much free information as I could from YouTube and piece things together because I didn't want to spend that out on myself. But then when I eventually did get a course about how to expand into wholesale and media outreach, things like that, when I actually did invest in the course and I finally had that capital to put in there, it came back so quick because it just like learning from somebody that's already done it is just a fast track, isn't it?
It's so much quicker to have somebody just tell you step by step. Actually, this is what you do, because otherwise you can just waste so much time spinning your wheels, can't you? Exactly. And that's the reason why you would buy a course or a membership, because you've got all of the stuff all in one place and you'll see plenty of people, particularly on threads. Everything, you can buy it.
You can find everything for free. Yes, you can. You can find everything for free if you have tonnes of time to sit there trawling through all of the things and making sure that they're all in the right order. Of course you can find everything for free. I'm sure you give free stuff out. I certainly give free stuff out. People can learn to draw from my YouTube. Absolutely. But there are other things that you get in a course and all of that kind of stuff.
And I think, you know, that self development piece for me has always been really, really, really important. Yeah, nice. Same. I'm part of, so I've obviously got my own membership, but I'm also part of a strategy membership. So I have a membership that I learn from every week. Like I'm literally watching videos every week. On that. I'm always watching different YouTube videos and things like that. But I have to say that another thing that I did was instead of listening to lots of different opinions and lots of different free advice, because when it's free, you take it from everywhere, don't you?
Yeah. Now I listen to one or two people, maybe like three at best, that I will listen to, but I tend to keep it to a very small amount of people now and just follow their strategy in their plan because then I know that it's going to be consistent. Whereas when you're getting it from too many places, you end up getting conflicting advice and then you can actually start, you can start going on one path and then you can sort of turn around and you're always making amaze for yourself when actually, if you just keep going forward, you're going to get further with it and you can actually be very busy not really getting very far with things and, and that can go on for quite a long time.
So, so, yeah, I'm constantly investing in myself and I feel like it's, I feel like it's one of the most important things you can do because once you have that knowledge, nobody can take that away from you. And so it's, it's value for the future, isn't it? And it's. Yeah, you know, no, I completely, totally and utterly agree. So I'm, I mean, I've got a few, a few courses, I've got one on.
It's the latest one that I bought community, about how to create a really great community. And that's going to be the next thing in my business is actually employing somebody who is going to be wholly in on looking after the community and all of that kind of stuff. Obviously, I still do it as well. And then Stu's stuff. So I'm in, I'm in his mastermind, which is honestly.
So I was in his. He's got two masterminds. I was in his connect mastermind, which is, you know, and I've got some amazing friends in there and accountability group and everything. And it's just brilliant that you can go, oh, we're doing this and how did you do it? And blah, blah, blah. And, you know, they'll say, well, we did this and then we did this and it's just.
And there's people all over the world and it's amazing. And now that I've sort of hit my next goal, I'm now in his big mastermind. Well, it's quite small. There's not many people in it. But that is actually really scary because I'm now sort of these. These people in the mastermind are having $5 million launches. Whoa. Yeah. And launching over a week and making $5 million. And, you know, and it's quite scary.
And these people have got so much knowledge and so open in sharing, and it's just like, oh, my goodness. So I'm going to San francisco. I fly out on the 5 may, and I'm spending three days with these amazing people. I'm really scared. Yeah, no, but don't be scared. It'll be great. Yeah. And actually, it's so nice, isn't it, when people are so generous and open with their knowledge?
Yeah. And I do think that the most successful people, I feel like the people I really admire and look up to are always people that are so open and generous with their content and they happily help people. Like, you know, I always, always try to, if somebody messages me and asks me for, like, some help or, like, last time I did a podcast, had a few people message me and asked me about art business and how, you know, just a few questions about it and, oh, I'm thinking about getting into it and, like, I'll always happily talk to those people where, you know, just taking that time to, like, help people because I just think that, why wouldn't you just, why wouldn't you do that and lift everyone up?
You know? I don't. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but I really do think that community over competition is such an important thing because there is room for all of us. Like, there's so much room for all of these different courses, and everyone's going to have different ideas and different perspectives. Absolutely. Got a different journey to share and a different story. So actually, there's so much.
There's so much opportunity, I feel like, and I don't think that there's any need to be guarded with your information or. No. Well, the buzzword at the moment. Yeah, buzzword at the moment is gatekeeping, isn't it? And I hate these buzzwords. So do I. Is gatekeeping gaslighting? What's the other one? There's another one as well. And I'm just like, oh, no, it's just human behaviour. It's all. It is.
It is. And, you know, and I get, and I get why some people don't want to show their entire process. And, you know, I personally hate filming my actual painting process. Like, I find it really takes me out of that flow state. So when I'm creating, I just want to be me in the painting and I recognise that people want to see the process, but for me, I enjoy sharing the more businessy side of it and that kind of stuff because I'm happy to share that practical knowledge of like, okay, how do you get into canva?
Go and do an Etsy banner? How do you lay it out? What's the best way of doing this? You know, I can literally give somebody like a practical tutorial of how to do something like that, something basic. But, you know, if you don't know, you don't know. But it's. I find that a lot easier to do. Whereas, like. Yeah, the actual sharing of the process I find really difficult, but not because I want to try and like, stop people from knowing how I do what I do.
Because another thing with art, I think that, and you'll know this, obviously, with your, your pencil tutorials where you'll have so many different people can draw the exact same thing and nobody is going to have the same. Absolutely, absolutely. There's so much variety, even if you have the same subject in front of you and nobody's really ever going to do what you do and everybody's going to have a unique way of doing it because they have a unique lens.
So I. Yeah, so in terms of competition and things like that, I just don't ever. I just think that there's. You're never going to be harmed by sharing and being generous with your information. I just don't, you know, not at all. Not at all. And I'm. I'm finding more now that, you know, I'm really gravitating towards because there are loads and loads of artists in my community, not my teaching community, but the communities that I'm in.
Lots and lots of artists. And it's so refreshing to have people who are bigging you up and celebrating you and, you know, rather than. I'm not, you know, there's. I think you find this in every sort of genre of art and whatever, you get this sort of small. I don't know, they're not a group, they're not all together, but you do get these, these people who are just.
I don't know, they just want you to fail. Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It's weird, isn't it? I think that you've either got. Yeah, it's weird. You know, we all get told so much that, you know, there's this starving artist mentality and you never make any money from it and you're always going to get people in real life, especially that, tell you that it's not possible.
And then when you do reach a level of success, then you've got people saying, well, well, not that much success. Yes. How dare you save some for the rest of us, for goodness sake. Hang on. What do you think you're doing? Well, actually, it is just, it's so strange. I do think that, you know, that's something that I really like about if you see people in America like, Stu's american, isn't he?
So, like, I do feel like he's canadian. Sorry. Yeah. So I do feel like their attitude is completely different to the british attitude. I think the british attitude is always like, don't get too big for your boots, don't get too successful. Whereas they've got the whole, like, american dream and you can do anything. It's. The mindset is totally different, isn't it? But I don't know why that is.
I don't know why it has to be like that because I just think that everyone's got, everyone has a thing that is their thing that they're able to do and, you know, I mean, you know, I got my car fixed recently. Like, to me the mechanics are complete genius because I have no idea what's underneath my hood. So, like, you know, everyone's got their, their zone of ability and expertise and so, you know, we've all got things we can learn from each other.
So, yeah, you know, you just, it's just, it's good to be generous and nice. Yeah, it really is. And it makes you feel, it makes you feel, you know, better as well. I know, I know. When anything sort of negative happens in my life, I can, it can really affect me, you know. So yesterday I had the most rubbish day trying to, I'm trying to get an appointment to see a hip specialist and I have private health cover through my business and so I was like, right, I'm going to try and make, you know, I'm going to book an appointment, I'm going private, that's all fine.
No, I have to go to my GP to get a referral. So it took me five days to get a referral letter. So I got my referral letter home last night, sat down, right, let me book this thing. So then I get onto Bupa to try and find my authentication code or whatever it is. Oh, hang on a second. Right, you need to fill this form in and then you need to get your GP to fill the form in and then we need to have it sent back and I was like, are you kidding me?
I said, I really need to see this person before I go away. And I just got. And that just sent me down on a spiral and I was like, can't do anything. I'm not drawing tonight. I'm not doing anything. I was really cross and then I ended up booking the appointment anyway and I'm going to pay for it. Yeah, I've got health insurance. Honestly, why is everything so.
And it was, everything was so hard yesterday. And then I got this email that came through and I was like, I shouldn't even go into the customer services email because that's not what I do. But this person had bought a course and she couldn't find it. So I was like, went to find who they were and realised that they'd signed up with a different email. So I emailed back and I said, oh, you've definitely bought the course, but you've signed up with a different email.
This is the different email signed up with. An hour later, I get a PayPal dispute. I haven't received my course. And I was like, oh, my goodness. I've just emailed you and I've told you it's under a different email. And I was like, why? Why did I even go into. And it's things like that that really upsets me. You know, when somebody does something like that where I've tried hard to, and I've spent five minutes trying to find them and then found them under a different email, and then they go and take out dispute and I'm like, why have you, why, why have you done that?
It's really tricky sometimes. It's the weirdest thing. And then you get, you know, you get people who, I don't know, they, they don't realise they've taken a subscription out and then their subscription renews and then they come back and they get, they get really angry and I'm like, you know, I don't know, getting angry with me because you, you sign, you ticked a box that said, you know, it's a subscription.
Yeah. And this is why I don't do customer service, because it really, really affects me more than anything, you know? Yeah, yeah, this is it. That's not how I would behave towards somebody. Absolutely. No, I know. I find that, that you. Yeah, you kind of expect people to act a certain way and. And that's not always the case. No, it's not. I mean, don't get me wrong, 99.9%
of all of the communication we get is absolutely wonderful. And gorgeous. And, you know, but it's that tiny weenie. It's like the social media posts, isn't it? The social media comments, tiny, weeny amount of, you know, meanness. And it's just like, you know, just. I totally agree with you. I think it is definitely about 99% and the majority of people are so lovely. But you do find that.
I find if there is any tiny problem that I will really fixate on that. And I think that it's because I just really care about what I do and I want people to be happy with it. You know, my whole thing is about joyful art. It's all colourful, it's joy. And I want my whole experience for my customer to be joyful. So obviously, like, you know, on the very rare occasion that, like, the post doesn't turn up or something, like, you know, a couple of christmases ago where there was all the postal strikes and things didn't, didn't turn up and I had somebody place an order on Christmas Eve, even though I'd said quite clearly that my postage dates had ended, you know, a week before that because I can't physically get you your order.
And so, and then you just stew on it for ages because you think, oh, you know, like, and you know, you've done everything. You can. You know, you've done everything. Do you know sometimes you can't, you can't control everything. No. And when, and when people, I was, I listened, so I love TikTok. And I was listening to this TikTok this morning, just came up and it was somebody I'd never seen before.
And it was something about blue hair. You have, you have, you've told me off for having blue hair. I think that was the thing. And she's, she's sitting there and she's talking through and she's saying, you know, you've been sitting with this person and they've been, you know, really having a go at you for having blue hair. And then you kind of look up at them and you go, but I haven't got blue hair.
And, you know, you haven't, you can't then take that person's anger and everything because, you know, you haven't got blue hair. Yeah. And you're like, well, I haven't got blue hair, so it doesn't matter. And then you can just walk off and you don't fixate on it because, you know, you haven't got blue hair. Yeah. And she said, and this is what we have to do with all of the other things when somebody says something mean about you, you, you know that what they're saying isn't true.
Yeah. So you don't need. Just think about the blue hair. You don't need to worry about it because you know it's not true. Yeah. Um, you know, and if somebody says, oh, this is your fault, you're like, no, it genuinely isn't my fault. So I'm not going to get fixated on it. And it was one of the, you know, when something really sticks in your mind and it was like, yeah, that is really good.
That is really good. So every time somebody says something to me that I'm like, well, it's actually not true, I'm just going to go, oh, no, I haven't got blue hair. That's a really, really good way of thinking about it. And it's such a distinctive thing to think of as well, isn't it, to, like, think of that we have? Because, yeah, I mean, it's. I do think it's true.
You're not going to get criticised by somebody that's, like, happier than you are in that moment. There's, you know, people saying such mean things and unnecessary things to people. They're not coming from a place of, like, you know, they're happy, fulfilled, they're having a nice day, everything's good for them. And then they just think, actually, I'm just going to come online and just say something unpleasant to somebody.
They're not in a good place. And I just try and think, okay, well, block, delete and think. That person is a really unhappy person and I hope they're okay. And that's it. You've got to give them the love, haven't you? Do you know what? And this is something that I've worked really, really hard on with my coach, is to not get fixated on stuff and just send them love and send them out into the universe, because otherwise what happens is if you fixate on something and I don't, I tend to be somebody who, if something happens, I'll, like, be cross in the moment or be sad in the moment or whatever, and then I'm.
I very quickly jump out of it, you know? So, like, yesterday I was grumpy and then come 06:00 it was all, I'd done it, I booked it, it's all fine, and then I just move on, you know, if I have an argument with somebody and literally five minutes, that's it, it's over, you know? What's that with you? You know, I just don't dwell on stuff. But sometimes things get, things are so deeply in there and you just can't kind of get rid of them, and it can completely destroy who you are as a person.
And it can, you know, if you're constantly thinking about something that you can't actually do anything about, you can't change. It can, you know, you lose your energy, you feel miserable. And she's really helped me with strategies to be able to sort of get out of them. Not that happens an awful lot, but, you know, on the odd occasion. And that's been a really good strategy for me, you know, and that sort of reflecting.
So I am quite quick to jump in and then I jump out again, and then I wish I hadn't jumped in in the first place. So I need to do more reflection on before, you know, so if an email comes through or something, you know, a lot of people would just sleep on it and then go, all right, you know, whatever. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I can't sleep on anything.
I'm like, right, I've got to deal with this now. But I find the other thing as well, which I haven't had before. It's really what? So I've got. I've got, you know, I've got friends, I've got really close family. And when I went to Nashville last year and I met some of my peers in Stu's mastermind, there was a few people, all creatives, who it was just like I've known them all my life, and we now have these little accountability groups and you just, I just look forward to hearing from them in the morning and you're having, like, little chats.
I'm going to Amsterdam with a couple of them in June. I'm seeing them all again in September when we go to Austin. And I've not had that, you know, before where I've got somebody who I can just have a laugh with and, you know, but who do exactly the same thing that I do. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's quite rare. Yeah, it's quite rare because, I mean, you know, all my friends are in, like, various jobs.
Like, nobody really is doing what I'm doing. So it's so lovely. This is why this is really nice because is a chance to talk to people that are doing the same things as you and on that same path because it can be quite a lonely path in some ways because you're, you know, a lot of the time working on your own. I mean, I personally really like that.
I'm quite an introvert. So I'm quite happy to be like, you know, doing my own thing, but it is so nice to meet other people that are on the same thing and understand the same struggles and then the same highs and lows because, you know, it is, it's quite a big journey, isn't it, to start your own business and the learning that goes on with that. I feel like it's a personal growth thing more than a business growth thing.
I mean, I've really had to, like, get out of my own way a lot. Well, that's a really big thing. That's a big thing. I think that's, that is something that stops people is just themselves. It just stops them. Either they don't think they can or they have preconceived ideas about something, you know, or, like the newsletter thing. I'm going to be sending something out, you know, every week.
But actually, once you start kind of moving in the, in the, in the sort of the groups of people who are already doing it and doing it well, you're like, oh, well, hang on a second. No, that's. Yeah, that's going to work quite well. And you do change. You do. You really do change. Absolutely. Yeah. But, you know, it's all positive change. And I think that, you know, I'm really happy that things are so different to how I could have dreamed that they would be.
I mean, when I was in my last job, obviously, I'd. I'd totally forgotten about my art. I hadn't even thought about it. So if, if that person at that point could see what I'm doing now, it would be totally mind blowing because it just wasn't on my radar in any way. And it would be interesting to see, you know, for all of us doing this kind of thing, like, how this is all going to evolve in the next 510 years because there's so much opportunity.
And, and I do think there's also a much kinder, like, there's lots of people now who are trying to instil those values of being more, just connected, more community based that have got ethical feelings about things, and there seems to be less dodgy kind of selling things and more genuine people that are just trying to do something positive. So I'm always hopeful for the future. I don't think you can have anything other than hopefully.
I mean, it is how you, it's how you perceive the world around you, isn't it? You know? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I also don't watch the news at all. I don't. That helps. I have no idea what's going on? I get all my news from TikTok, so it could be anything. I know this is it. I'm like, well, if it's really important, I'll find out eventually through instagram. If you need to know something important, then I guess for me, the next important thing is the general election.
But, yeah, yeah, who knows what's going to happen? This is it. I know, but in a way, it's quite good to not know too much in some ways, because, I mean, I've seen loads of people online, especially last year. Towards the end of last year, all I saw online was how 2023 was, like, the worst year ever, you know, and I was like, is it? I was having my best year ever in 2023.
And I was like. And I was like, what are you talking about? And everyone was going, the terrible recession. And I was just like, where? What terrible recession? Everything's fine. Like, so, you know, in some ways, if you're not hearing that all the time, that you don't realise. No, and that's the thing. It's news headlines, isn't it? So news headlines, you know, if you're, if you're just going to hang on every news headline, you're you.
I couldn't even imagine. I can't even imagine sitting and listening to horrible Jeremy vine on radio. I just can't even. Because that's what I used to do. And now in the car, I've got an audiobook going that's giving me all of this amazing knowledge, or I'm listening to an incredible podcast or I'm listening to my voxer group or something and I'm like, oh, my God, this is just, you know, I'm filling my mind with really good stuff.
Yeah, yeah. Rather than, yeah, absolutely. But I think that is really important, actually, to keep going because if you are just surrounding yourself constantly with negative news stories and just seeing those headlines, then it is going to impact you. I'm sure I could find, you know, I could definitely go online now and find 20 horrendous, harrowing stories that would ruin my day. And I know that that's out there, you know, that's always available, isn't it?
It's always available, yeah. It's choosing where you put your energy, but actually, like you say, you know, having good coaches and inspirational people, I mean, I'm always looking at, like, inspiring people, like people like Brene Brown or Tony Robbins, like, people who are just about being their best versions of themselves. I love all of that. So, yeah, definitely. I was saying too try and be your best. Absolutely.
I was talking to somebody last week about your mind is basically like a big algorithm. What you feed into it is basically what comes out and you get more and more of what you feed in. And one of the big things, I'm doing a live session on Thursday and one of the, one of the things that I'm talking about there because I do like a little business thing every month and it's basically about spring cleaning, what you listen to, what you surround yourself with, because sometimes you actually make a choice because someone then said, oh, well, if you're always positive, your social media feed will be positive.
And I'm like, yeah, that's fine, but you may well choose to follow somebody and go and look, look at their stuff, and then that's a choice. You know, I choose to listen to this particular podcast or watch this YouTube or whatever, and you've got to be really careful about who you listen to and what you listen to and what you feed in. Because if you're constantly surrounding yourself with, oh, you know, I'm not making any money this year, oh, it's rubbish, oh, nobody's buying, oh, my prices are too, you know, too high.
All of this kind of stuff. If you're constantly listening to that, that's what your world will become and that's what you will end up believing. Yeah. And it can't fail. It can't fail to get into your head, can it? If you're, you know, you might be having a really, really good month and everything's good, and then you see somebody say, you know, you might see three or four people on one day saying, oh, this is a terrible recession and I've not made any sales and this is awful.
And then you start thinking, oh, maybe I've just been lucky. Maybe things are going to drop off any minute. You do start doubting yourself. And actually, I think as creative people as well, like when you want to be able to sit down and draw and paint and everything, you also don't want to have all that on your plate. Do you want to have that? You want to get in there fresh and do something that brings you joy.
And I do think that when you've got all of that in your head, sometimes it can for me, I can get really creatively blocked if I've got too many negative things coming in. So before I'm creating, I've got to be thinking about, like, what music I'm listening to and, and what I'm listening to throughout the day to get into the mindset of wanting to be able to create because, yeah, you do have to be in the right mood, don't you?
You can't just turn it on and off, you know. Yeah. So, absolutely, absolutely. Oh, do you know, I've had such a lovely time chatting. Yes. I'm going to have to go now because I've got to take the dog swimming. No worries. Or pool swimming. No, pull swimming. She's got hip dysplasia, so she's been going since she was. She's four and she's been going since she was one. Oh, wow.
She's got the strongest tail you've ever. Honestly. She really loves her swimming. So I take her swimming on Wednesday and then I've got yoga, which is very nice. And isn't it so nice to be able to work for yourself and be able to put these things in that are more like, you know, more caring for your animals and caring for yourself? It's just so nice, isn't it, to be able to make your own hours?
I've kind of crafted my business so that I now employ people. You know, I've got two full time team members. I've got two part time team members I'm thinking of, you know, well, definitely another part time. And it means that I basically have. I'm kind of curating a life that I really love. It means I can go away. It means I can do. I can do the stuff that I'm really good at, which is teaching the drawing.
That's why I'm really good at. I'm actually really good at writing as well. So I can do all of those things which I love and not get bogged down by customer service. And I love that. I love that. And it just means that you can focus on the things that are your absolute strengths and then somebody else who's got a strength in other areas, the things that you don't enjoy, like, you know, dealing with some of those emails, you can get somebody who absolutely loves dealing with that.
And that's great, isn't it? Like, you know. Exactly. Yeah, no, definitely. And the back end of my website and all of the automations and everything. Can you imagine if I was doing that? Oh, my God. It's been really nice to chat. We'll have to do it again. I like these sort of, you know, when we just pick a subject and just talk about it. I like that. But keep it nice and positive, not getting all, like, you know, ripping stuff apart.
Yeah, it's nice to come on a podcast and then not be, like, loads of, like, preset questions and we can just have a chat. We just have a natter. I do quite like that. I like listening to. I'm listening to an audiobook at the moment. It's, um. Ten times is easier than two times. Have you read it? You will. No. No. Oh, my God. Get it. Honestly, it is amazing.
The audiobooks. Really good. The guy's voice is a bit, but he reads each chapter and then he has a con because it's. It's written by two people, then they have a conversation about it in between the chapters, and it's awesome. It's so good. And I'm getting so much out of it. I really, really am. It's ever such a good book. Oh, I'll cheque that out. Definitely. So there you go.
Well, have a lovely rest of your day. Thank you so much for joining me. No worries. Yeah, we'll have to get together again and have a good old chin wag. It was really nice. Yeah, for sure. Take care. Bye.
